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The Watcher
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
The Watcher // Image Gallery
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 17, 2006, 8:15pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Seeing as so many of you seemed to like my other trueSpace/Vue efforts I thought I'd share this one too - it's been favourably received at various other venues...
It's called 'The Watcher'. The figure and his robe are all trueSpace models as is the biggest floating mountain, the roads and rope-bridges and the white temple-like building.
The other buildings are deconstructed from the "Tyrol Castle" model available from Cornucopia.com and everything else is native Vue terrains and vegetation.
Once again there is no reason why this could not be done totally in trueSpace except that as an application that specialises in landscape rendering, Vue obviously makes a lot of the landscape aspects easier to manipulate.
Hope you all enjoy it. |
Post by 3dpdk // Nov 17, 2006, 10:00pm
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3dpdk
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Hay Coz ... er ... W!z
I like the upside-down mountains! Very cool!
My main critique would be that the "Watcher"s size or distance (relative to the floating mountains) would be less confusing if the same atmospherics were applied to him that was used for the mountains. Edit: well, unless he's really close and the mountains are really distant.
I'm not the tS snob I used to be after combining several applications myself to work on my animation. I am finding out that some applications compliment each other with their different feature strengths.
... geeze ... I should have been a diplomat!
Is Vue downloadable, shareware, or a state of mind, and where can I find it?:)
Paul |
Post by RichLevy // Nov 17, 2006, 11:24pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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http://www.e-onsoftware.com/
Rich |
Post by MadMouse // Nov 18, 2006, 1:59am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Splendid stuff Wiz, the highest compliment that I can give this render is that it reminded me of one of my favourite images by the most excellent artist 'hobbit'
Click here for Hobbit's image (http://market.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=553513&member) |
Post by Alien // Nov 18, 2006, 2:49am
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Alien
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Looks cool. My only crit is those long strands of hair could do with being smoothed at the top near his shoulder. |
Post by Steinie // Nov 18, 2006, 2:50am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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W!zard, nice job creating this environment. The fading gives us the perception of great distances.
But.... I only have one question that might be personal.....
Correct me if I'm wrong but is that W!zard wearing NIKES?! Pretty hip Wizard...:) |
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 18, 2006, 2:51am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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My main critique would be that the "Watcher"s size or distance (relative to the floating mountains) would be less confusing if the same atmospherics were applied to him that was used for the mountains. Edit: well, unless he's really close and the mountains are really distant.
Hi Paul
Hmmn. - Thanks for the feedback, it's interesting that you should say that. I'm always (well nearly always) careful to keep scale as accurate and realistic as possible. When creating this picture I actually made a selection of different images using widely different atmospheric settings - sunsets, more fog, less fog, different sun positions and so on. In order to prevent exactly the thing you are talking about I made a cylinder the height and width of the figure and used that to scale everything else against - mainly by placing the cylinder next to various buildings and roads and bridges to ensure (roughly) appropriate scaling.
This means that the foreground figure is as clear as he is because of the fog and haze and GI settings used in Vue.
RichLevy has already posted a link to e-on software who make it.
It comes in several versions - I was given Vue 5 Esprit as a gift by a fellow trueSpacer so I'm unaware of current prices or if there are any free versions or demos. The latest version Vue 6 is currently being 'pre-released' with out it's eventual full functionality.
Splendid stuff Wiz, the highest compliment that I can give this render is that it reminded me of one of my favourite images by the most excellent artist 'hobbit' Thanks for that Steve - high praise indeed. Hobbit is the man... er...hobbit? Whatever, he is a legend and an inspiration and I've seen quite a lot of his work although I don't recall seeing the one you linked to before. The similarities are amazing!
My picture was actually inspired by my hazy memories of the inside cover art of a record made years ago by Vangelis and Jon Anderson (from Yes) called Olias of Sunhillow. The flying mountain idea is hardly new of course and as someone somewhere once said, there is no such thing as new art - it's all plagiarism because it's all been done before, there's just variations on what went before.
Any thanks for leaving your toilet long enough to leave a comment!!;) ;) |
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 18, 2006, 3:03am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Ooops, just missed you guys with my earlier post!!Looks cool. My only crit is those long strands of hair could do with being smoothed at the top near his shoulder.
Chuckle! Mea Culpa Alien! If Vue 5 has SDS then I've yet to find that feature - after exporting from tS to Vue and adjusting the textures (they don't always swap across cleanly) I'd almost finished setting up the Wizard model in Vue before noticing the obvious faceting at the shoulder and I was just to lazy to go back to tS, smooth it and re-import it into Vue and redo the textures all over again - slack I know.
Steinie, I can always rely on you to spot some detail or feature and see it in a different way! LOL they're not Nikes they're Reboks - sensible Wizards always select sensible footwear - did you ever see Gandalf wearing flip-flops or high heels?! |
Post by GraySho // Nov 18, 2006, 3:09am
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GraySho
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That's a very nice image :) . Only the fog doesn't work too well IMO. Maybe it's because it's too blueish and opaque. It desaturates the background objects too much. It reminds me of the typical bryce renders.
Hobbit/Andy Simmons is a great source of inspiration for me as well. You may want to check his homepage (http://www.ans-graphics.com/) |
Post by Saul // Nov 18, 2006, 11:38am
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Saul
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Seeing as so many of you seemed to like my other trueSpace/Vue efforts........
Not me Buddy!
It's images like this that give 3D a bad name, it's bombast, without even some technical stuff for to to give it a structural interest!
Make stuff you can actually see. Look around you! |
Post by brianalldridge // Nov 18, 2006, 3:15pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Not me Buddy!
It's images like this that give 3D a bad name, it's bombast, without even some technical stuff for to to give it a structural interest!
Make stuff you can actually see. Look around you!This sounds a lot like my Old Joe's project..... (though I am getting really lazy lately, I should finish something sometime:rolleyes: ) |
Post by 3dpdk // Nov 18, 2006, 11:41pm
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3dpdk
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Saul
I believe there is a LAGITAMIT genera called FANTASY which opens the doors to all kinds of "stuff" no has EVER seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stephen's fantasy / illustrative style has always been a pleasure for me and a break from the other photo-realistic work displayed here. I like to wander through his scenes and discover the details he includes.
... besides, his architectural models seem pretty detailed and believable to me!
W!z
My original impression was that the "Watcher" character was much larger than what you intended (sort of god-like) and so, closer to the houses, but I'm not sure how I would correct the confusion ... or that it needs to be corrected. Let the viewer decide.
Thanks for the link Rich. I don't see any demo versions but the Artist's version may be within budget! :)
Paul |
Post by Methusela // Nov 19, 2006, 12:08am
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Methusela
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I love the sense of altitude you created with the fog effects and windyness. I especially love the waterfalls.
If you really want to change the 'godlike' effect of the watcher (which I think is kind of neat), perhaps you could fake a little DOF by blurring his right side a little?
Perhaps my only critique is that the buildings on the middle Island look Tudor-ish, and the one on the lowest Island looks more modern (Like the U.S. capitol buildings built over a hundred and fifty years after the Tudor era) than them, and maybe a little out of place. Though, I suppose that's what whimsy is all about itsn't it?
Also, I know they weren't done in TS, but the undersides of the floating islands look really cool.
Well done! |
Post by RichLevy // Nov 19, 2006, 12:10am
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RichLevy
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Thanks for the link Rich. I don't see any demo versions but the Artist's version may be within budget! :)
Paul
Paul
I don't think they have the demos out for Vue 6 yet, this is a link to Vue 5 trial versions. If you can find the money look into the Espirit version, it has some of the features of the older 5 version of Pro did for only a fraction of the cost.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/?page=try
Try the demos, what you will be able to do with water and clouds alone will sell you on the program :D I love the fact that I can have wind blowing across my trees and grass, clouds moving realistically thru the sky, water moving, creating complex eco systems... I am no expert at setting up complex scenes with lights, with Vue I rarely ever have to worry about that.
I am VERY happy with my Vue 6 Infinite version... it's an amazing program.
Have fun
Rich |
Post by splinters // Nov 19, 2006, 8:19am
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splinters
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Not me Buddy!
It's images like this that give 3D a bad name, it's bombast, without even some technical stuff for to to give it a structural interest!
Make stuff you can actually see. Look around you!
Really suprised by this comment Saul, it is like casting aside the special effects work of ILM and telling them to just photograph real things rather than making them up. Without them, no Jurassic Park, Abyss etc. etc.
I have always found programs such as tS to be the perfect software to realise the things in my head, whether they are based on real things or not.
Wizard, some of this stuff is not my cup of tea, but that is an artistic choice rather than a dislike of fantasy. I like my sci-fi/fantasy images a little bit darker, moodier and gritty (pigs aside). |
Post by trebs // Nov 19, 2006, 8:36am
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Got to agree with Saul here, sorry.
This stuff is done by all the big houses for sure, difference being, their fantasy stuff is convincing. unlike this.
Old words from a lecture during my college days as a special effects modelmaker.
"You will not get hired by ANY production team for modelling space or fantasy. Model what you can see and what you know. The rest will come easy"
Of course, there where space nuts and fantasy nuts who thought they could knock-out stuff that would stun the industry into signing them. Guess what.. they all failed.
Enjoy tS, enjoy the fantasy, but don't put it up there in "too serious" world. |
Post by trebs // Nov 19, 2006, 9:24am
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trebs
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"Never argue with an idiot, he will lower you down to his level and beat you with experience!"
Wise words, I'm an idiot beyond all comprehension.
I'll try again, shall I, plus steer it all back on topic. As if personal opinions on renders posted here are off topic. Oh, I forgot, negative ones are. Sorry.
<cough>
WOW, Wiz. . that scene is awesome dude. !! |
Post by CdeB // Nov 19, 2006, 9:32am
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CdeB
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A like this kind of 'Roger Deanesque" image (Roger Dean -artist brought to fame by Yes album covers).
It was Roger Dean that drove me to paint (also fantasies), they weren't very good...and in one way Saul is right, I realised I had to learn to paint 'mudane' images well, in order to paint fantasy 'realistically'. Unfortunately, I am still learning with my watercolours how to paint 'mundane' scenes and so never got back to fantasy:o.
Then I discovered computer games and played Myst and this inspired me to 3D. Again I'd love to do fantasy, but I my lesson from painting makes me realise I need to start with the 'mudane' first to have a hope of getting good at fantasy. So, I actually think it is more difficult to get a convincing fantasy render than a mudane one...IMHO. However, in the end it is personal taste.
All art is self-expression, and maybe some of us need to be inspired by the 'fantastic' to give us the impetus to create anything worthwhile at all.
Actually W!zard, I think you came closer to this ideal of 'realistic fantasy' with your pirate ship and island renders (Feb 06, Caligari Gallery) than in this particular image...again IMHO. But I always watch your work with interest :) .
Footnote. Paradoxically, I suspect broader public interest in 3D has been driven by the ability of modern CGI (and particularly 3D) to bring fantasy to life, from Toy Story to Lord of the Rings and I would guess many entering the professional 3D world were inspired by these on screen images....even if what they now create is 'mundane' |
Post by rj0 // Nov 19, 2006, 11:53am
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Non-photorealistic renderers have also developed a fair amount of popularity.
Given all of the art mediums and styles (think painters), I believe the different approaches to 3D and rendering are far from explored.
rj |
Post by brianalldridge // Nov 19, 2006, 12:42pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Footnote. Paradoxically, I suspect broader public interest in 3D has been driven by the ability of modern CGI (and particularly 3D) to bring fantasy to life, from Toy Story to Lord of the Rings and I would guess many entering the professional 3D world were inspired by these on screen images....even if what they now create is 'mundane'Yeah, I started 3d after seeing pixar's Monsters Inc.(hoping to work there some day) And am realizing that whenever I try to model something fantasy or made up, the result is terrible, I find that any small piece of technology is best for practice, though w!zard is way better than me, so I have no room to critique.:) |
Post by GraySho // Nov 19, 2006, 10:17pm
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I guess Wizard is not trying to land a job in the industrie (knowing a bit of his background), and obivously he's having a lot of fun doing this kind of stuff. This (fun) should be reason enough to do what one does, like it or not. |
Post by Alien // Nov 20, 2006, 12:55am
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Alien
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This (fun) should be reason enough to do what one does, like it or not.
Absolutely! |
Post by spacekdet // Nov 20, 2006, 6:44am
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Lord knows Saul has never modeled or animated (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/Animations/2002/Apr02/default.asp?Cate=GAnimations) anything (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/Animations/2006/apr/default.asp?Cate=GAnimations) impossible (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/Animations/2004/mar/default.asp?Cate=GAnimations) or fantastical! (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/Animations/2004/feb/default.asp?Cate=GAnimations) ....ever! (http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/Animations/2003/jan03/default.asp?Cate=GAnimations) 8^) |
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 20, 2006, 11:25pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Not me Buddy!
It's images like this that give 3D a bad name, it's bombast, without even some technical stuff for to to give it a structural interest!
Make stuff you can actually see. Look around you!
? Well I'm always open to feedback from anyone in any way about my work - I'm sorry that this picture did not measure up to your specifications Saul.
You remark is not exactly all that constructive or helpful though. How do you suggest I could have made this a better picture? I have never been overly interested in photorealism myself - although I can appreciate the efforts of those who do. As an amateur photographer from way back I've always thought that photo realism is best created with... er... photographs!!
I'm puzzled as to why an image like this should give 3d a bad name though - do you mean because it's not photorealistic? If you are saying that 3d should be limited to what is photorealistic then I would say you are welcome to your opiinion but I strongly doubt that it is a universal one.
Additionally, if you are saying that a successful 3d image must have some "technical stuff" to give it structural interest I guess you don't consider pencil sketches to be art either?
FYI, an image cannot be classed as 'bombast' as you suggest. "Bombast" is a term that relates to speech and/or the written word. It means 'pompous or 'pretentious'. Here is an example of a phrase which can be classed as bombastic: "It's images like this that give 3D a bad name...". ;)
Regarding your final comment: "Make stuff you can actually see". You mean you can't see stuff like this? Ironically, making stuff that I can see is exactly what I aim to do. I see images in my minds eye that I can't simply photograph - the whole purpose of 3d apps like trueSpace and Vue are (in my opinion anyway) to make realisations of things which can't be photographed.
Anyway thanks for your comment - there's no such thing as bad publicity right?
GraySho has it right - I've no interest in getting a job in the industry (and have turned done two offers to date) - for the most part people with jobs in the industry get told what to produce and when, whereas the only person I have to please is myself - fun is certainly a large part of the motive, after all life is far too serious to ever take seriously! |
Post by Nez // Nov 21, 2006, 12:32am
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the whole purpose of 3d apps like trueSpace and Vue are (in my opinion anyway) to make realisations of things which can't be photographed.
Possibly not the WHOLE purpose, but surely one of the main purposes (oops - you did say in your opinion).
As you say, your main motivation is your own amusement/enjoyment anyway, and you know there are plenty of others who do enjoy your efforts. Many of us would rather live in a fantasy world than the real world anyway (especially MadMouse's very dirty world?!)
One really minor thing I noticed in the picture - on the highest floating rock/island thingy, the tree to the extreme left appears to be falling off the edge? |
Post by Steinie // Nov 21, 2006, 2:45am
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Steinie
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Some people like to go against the grain, free thinkers, dreamers, inventors, pain in the butt antagonist and I always pictured Saul as one of those individuals. Thats why I like his work! I read his comment as a reminder to the rule "draw what you see rather than draw what you know" Take it as such.
Also it is evident he doesn't like this style but thats cool. You handled his comments well.:) |
Post by W!ZARD // Nov 21, 2006, 4:17am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Possibly not the WHOLE purpose, but surely one of the main purposes (oops - you did say in your opinion).
One really minor thing I noticed in the picture - on the highest floating rock/island thingy, the tree to the extreme left appears to be falling off the edge?
Good call on two counts Nez - of course it's not the WHOLE purpose as such. When I made the comment I was thinking of those animations you see of inside a car engine when it's running or medical visualisations - stuff that it's difficult or impossible to actually photograph. Art is in the eye of the beholder and pretty much any tool can be used legitimately to create art IMO
Yes the tree does appear to be falling off the edge - no it's not supposed to! I placed it there very carefully because I wanted to give the impression the tree was growing from the side of the mountain rather than the top - this works in most of the other renders I did using different settings but doesn't quite come off in this render - oh well. excrement occurs! (see MadMouses latest works);)
Thanks Steinie - Saul is at least as entitled to his opinion as I am to mine. There's over 6 billion people on this planet, each with their own unique opinions - I don't intend to lose any sleep over a 1/6billionth of global opinion!!
And he is right - my art classes always stressed 'paint what the eye sees not your mind thinks it sees'. |
Post by Weevil // Nov 23, 2006, 11:15pm
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Weevil
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Think that looks good, the surrealness works well |
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