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Autumn In Venice
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Autumn In Venice // Image Gallery
Post by W!ZARD // Dec 4, 2006, 1:22am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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There was recently a contest over at Cornucopia3d.com using the theme Autumn in Venice. I decided to enter but was not successful in gaining a prize - never mind, I'm still pretty happy with the result (whether or not it's 'real 3d').
I used a picture off the Net as a guide so this is a 'real world' view from the Doges Palace to the Ilse of San Griggorio. I built all the buildings and so on with trueSpace 6.6, transferred them to Vue and went from there.
The first image is my contest entry, rendered in Vue, everything except the french warship, the yacht and the trees, modelled with tS.
The second image is totally trueSpace, modelled and rendered with 6.6. TrueSpace is not a 'landscape renderer' as such but I think you can still do grest landscape work with it.
Anyway, I thought some of you might be interested so here they are. I'd love to hear what you folk think as so often you see stuff that I've missed!
Cheers
W!ZARD |
Post by Nez // Dec 4, 2006, 3:29am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Nice job Wizard - I think the TS render dows pretty well next to the Vue one. I think that possibly if you tweaked you sun colour slightly in the TS version and made it a little more yellow, you'd be even closer - it's noticeable both in the flare, reflection on the water and the light coming through the 'railings' in the foreground that the light colour is a little 'cold' compared to the top image.
There's a few bits in the foreground (seen through the catrefoils at the top) that I can't quite identify - assume they're external features on the building but they're a little confusing to my eye.
If you didn't model the warship in TS, where did you model it - it's a cool looking model.
I remember you saying a week or two back you were going to post a comparison between TS and Vue, so I've been looking forward to it - I have to say I think TS has done alright!
Thanks for sharing it with us... |
Post by Steinie // Dec 4, 2006, 3:39am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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The buildings in the background also 3d? If so you should consider animating the scene, maybe a birds view flying through the scene. Heck, you now have a rendering farm! (with your new computer network)
I like the look of the water in the TS rendering better. Pretty cool that you got them to match so closely. |
Post by Morgan // Dec 4, 2006, 6:18am
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Morgan
Total Posts: 138
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Both are very cool pictures, Wizard. I agree with Nez about the flare in the second one (which is also a bit on the bright side, I think), but both are really great. |
Post by mrbones // Dec 4, 2006, 7:33am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Great Render, I like the top one better because it has better lighting and leaves., 1 suggestion is to re-place the birds more strategically. :) |
Post by MadMouse // Dec 4, 2006, 9:29am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Really nice work Stephen. Without being disloyal to TS I prefer the top image, it has a little more mood. But I do find the lens flare in both a little over powering. |
Post by hemulin // Dec 4, 2006, 11:41am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Really nice image there W!zard! |
Post by stoker // Dec 4, 2006, 11:50am
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stoker
Total Posts: 506
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2 very nice images there....:jumpy: |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 4, 2006, 12:22pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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The top one has much warmer lighting...and better ships.
The chinese junk looks out of context.
Also, I'm not sure which is 'first' and which is 'second'- depends on how one is reading the thread... .
I'm not a big fan of lens flares, but that's personal taste.
Nice models in either case. |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 4, 2006, 1:08pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Very nice images. Reminds me when I was there. I would have been the tourist weighted down in blown glass sculptures. :D
Is that sunburst from Vue? I like the effect. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Dec 4, 2006, 1:43pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Very nice images Wizard! Good depth and contrast in these. :banana:
Agree with the others about not caring for the lens flares though.
-Jack. |
Post by W!ZARD // Dec 4, 2006, 10:52pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Chuckle - well the lens flare seems to be almost universally disliked! I know it's a tired and hackneyed effect and all too easy to over do. The reason it's there at all is because the original photo I used as a template had lens flare.
Thanks for the comments folks - it's been interesting reading them.
Yes the tS pic has a bluer cast to the light, I might redo it with a yellower sun (and less lens flare!!) at some stage.
To answer your questions:
Nez, the warship is a commercially available model for Vue from
Cornucopia3d.com. When you buy Vue you get a $50.00 voucher to spend in their shop and this ship is one of the models I got with my 50 bucks.
Steinie: yeah the background buildings are all 3d. I googled San Griggorio for reference images. It was a bit hard to know how much detail to model them with given that they're off in the background.
Spacekdet: yeah the junk is definately out of place - I don't have another sizeable ship model that I've built myself (yet).
jamesmc: Yes the sun burst in the top image is from Vue - one of it's strong points are it's light flare effects IMHO. You seem to be on your own in liking the effect though! :D The bottom pic uses the native tS lensflare.
Thanks for the input folks. |
Post by e-graffiti // Dec 5, 2006, 6:46am
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e-graffiti
Total Posts: 171
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Nice work! I prefer the first render as the atomsphere really gives more "depth" and well..atomsphere.. to the image. I think in both images the lens flare could be alittle distracting but much more distracting in the second render. Not that I dislike lens flare all together I just think my eye is distracted by it and perhaps it could be alittle less strong. I noticed that the clouds are different in both images is it Vue clouds in first and texture map in second! |
Post by behzad // Dec 5, 2006, 7:44am
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behzad
Total Posts: 173
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Beautiful scene, very nice atmosphere. Love it, really well done. I hope you have entered this into the gallery, you deserve to win.
:banana: :banana: :banana: |
Post by splinters // Dec 6, 2006, 12:20am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Must agree about lens flare-really spoils it for me on what is an otherwise excellent image. Any chance you could change it for a bloom effect. Also PS has a lens flare effect more subtle than this and you could use dodge tool (or is that burn) to lighten around the halo. Post the original withou lens flare and I could show you what I mean...:) |
Post by W!ZARD // Dec 6, 2006, 6:42pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks guys - I'm currently trying (with mixed success) to come to grips with trueSpace 7.11 now that I've finally got a computer that will run it! I'm seeing what people have been talking about with the learning curve :) .
However given the number of "great picture, shame about the lens flare" comments this pic has received, both here and elsewhere I guess I'll have to revisit it. Thanks for the offer Splinters but I'll play with it somemore myself. I've actually totally rebuilt the foreground arches since rendering this pic and so I'll replace the originals as the new ones have more detail.
e-graffiti: yes you've got it - Vue clouds in the top pic and a photo mapped on a sphere in the second. |
Post by Weevil // Dec 7, 2006, 2:50am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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The top one has a MAJOR Edge to the bottom one, the bottom one looks cold winter, the top one has depth |
Post by 3dpdk // Dec 7, 2006, 4:49am
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Splinters: since in photography the exposure to light brings out depth of color, dodging is the technique of shading (masking) areas of the final print to lessen the exposure; less light = less color and if exposed to white paper this has the effect of lightening the image where it's been "dodged".
"Burning" is the opposite technique and results in increasing color depth until it appears black or over-exposed , so burning will darken.
Just thought I'd ... well ... you probably already knew that but as long as you brought it up ...
Stephen:
The main difference between the two images is the Veu render has more feeling of depth and space.
Not sure why you'd say tS isn't a landscape renderer. Granted, the creation of a wireframe landscape (hills and such) may not be as automatic as some dedicated software, but the differences in the two images could be narrowed with a change in hew of the "sun" light and the minimal use of the foreground shader "depth que" or even a slight amount of fog would recreate the Vue rendering; possibly use a spot light for your sun and add simple volumetrecs if you can stand the render times. I think the difference in the two would be nearly undetectable.
So you are saying the original was tS6.6 and you may re-render in tS7.11? I'd like to see the difference.
I guess I need to catch up and order 7.11 for myself, everyone else seems to have it!
Paul |
Post by W!ZARD // Dec 7, 2006, 12:37pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Stephen:
The main difference between the two images is the Veu render has more feeling of depth and space.
Not sure why you'd say tS isn't a landscape renderer. Granted, the creation of a wireframe landscape (hills and such) may not be as automatic as some dedicated software, but the differences in the two images could be narrowed with a change in hew of the "sun" light and the minimal use of the foreground shader "depth que" or even a slight amount of fog would recreate the Vue rendering; possibly use a spot light for your sun and add simple volumetrecs if you can stand the render times. I think the difference in the two would be nearly undetectable.
So you are saying the original was tS6.6 and you may re-render in tS7.11? I'd like to see the difference.
I guess I need to catch up and order 7.11 for myself, everyone else seems to have it!
PaulHi Paul - I guess I consider tS to be a general purpose modeller and renderer - and Vue is more of a dedicated landscape package. Vue has a wide range of presets and atmospheric environments that include clouds and so on. Most significantly (to my way of thinking anyway) is Vue's built in vegetation. Yes tS can make excellent landscapes - a large percentage of my own work can be described as landscapes (though not always excellent!) but if there was one feature I really wish was included with trueSpace it would be a good vegetation system and volumetric clouds. Of course everyone is loking for different features and there are ways to get any picture done with tS - which is just one of the reasons I love using it!!
Re your coments on the picture - yes the sun colour is a major difference, the tS sun is much cooler. There is a degree of fog in the tS render though probably not enough to recreate the Vue render - I didn't want to overly obscure the distant buildings so it was a bit of an artistic compromise (shrug). It was not my intention to exactly reproduce the Vue render in trueSpace as much as it was to show the same scene in two different apps.
Given the almost universal objection to the lensflare I'll probably at least re-render the image with different sun settings. Watch this space...
Thanks for the input too. |
Post by W!ZARD // Dec 8, 2006, 11:54pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well thanks to the feedback offered I've re-done this picture with a few changes - the obvious being the abscence of lens flare.
Other tweaks: I rebuilt the jetty at middle distance right, removed the 'junk' sails from the ship, boosted the fog levels and added more orange hue to the sunlight.
I've rebuilt the arches with more details and removed a lot of the more obvious faceting and retextured them.
The picture was rendered in two slices, everything but the arches and then the arches by themselves. I then stacked the images in The GIMP and added the glow individually to each layer.
I think this is now a much closer match for the Vue version.
I was quite happy with this before but know, thanks to all your feedback I like it even more...
What do you think? :) |
Post by splinters // Dec 9, 2006, 1:10am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Beautiful work sir...:D |
Post by Methusela // Dec 9, 2006, 2:13am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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I do really like the first render alot. The lighting is very soft and the whole image is very relaxing. That's not to say the other one's worse, just a different effect. Makes me feel a little busy actually, seeing that fellow on the gondola. Like I'm on the way to help bring in that Junk (That's what it's called, right?) and unload cargo (Probably more gondolas :D ).
I'm most impressed with the buildings as well, those must have taken ages! |
Post by 3dpdk // Dec 9, 2006, 7:44am
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Nicely done! Bravo Stephen! A "finished" piece indeed.
A nice mood; warm, tranquil, Mediterranean evening. Wine and cheese and steamed mussels before a sauce rich main meal ... or is that just me wanting to get off this d*** boat!
Well, that's what it does for me!
Excellent work!
Paul |
Post by Jack Edwards // Dec 9, 2006, 1:21pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ditto from me. Huge improvement.
Definitely gallery worthy. :-) Great work!
-Jack. |
Post by MadMouse // Dec 9, 2006, 1:26pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Big improvement Bud, great image. Worthy of a win (which probably means it wont;) ) |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 9, 2006, 1:35pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Outstanding! I would hang that in the lobby of my office. Very nicely done indeed! I take my hat off to you. |
Post by hemulin // Dec 10, 2006, 1:03am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Brilliant work W!zard! |
Post by W!ZARD // Dec 10, 2006, 2:41am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well thank you all - looks like this one hit the spot! And you can all rest assured I'll never use that lens flare button again!! |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 10, 2006, 9:42am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Much much better...but naturally I still have one nit to pick: the sunny highlight on the water still looks a little blown out... compare it to the first Vue render and on that one you can still see some details/ripples even in the brightest reflection on the water. The latest render is pretty much one tone in this area. Fix that and add a layer of orange haze and Roman may just find it irresistible! |
Post by Nez // Dec 10, 2006, 11:12pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Well done Wizard - good improvement to a great image - makes for a much warmer feel that's really close to the original Vue image. Confirms my earlier point (as reinforced by 3dpdk) that changing the lighting would make for a much fairer comparison. The final picture is getting on for photo-real, which is quite an interesting contrast to your fantasy pictures.
Certainly leaves me wanting to try some exterior/landscape scenes, which is something I've never tried.
Excellent... |
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