|
|
"Old Master"
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
"Old Master" // Image Gallery
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 28, 2007, 7:00am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Here I've tried to recreate the look of those old fashioned nautical paintings. The 'painting' itself is a trueSpace scene featuring ships I modelled with trueSpace (I'm starting to get quite a fleet now!). The scene was rendered with an IBL and an infinite and is the scene I was refering to in an earlier thread about crashing tS 7.11. This scene has a LOT of polys.
After rendering I took the finished pic into The GIMP and applied a series of filters to create the painted look and used that image as the texture for my 'painting'.
This scene uses the 'Empty Kitchen' HDRI image for lighting plus an area light to accentuate the shadows. Thanks to 3dplants.com for the plant which has been retextured and otherwise tweaked by me. Thanks to cg.textures.com (http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php)for the excellent wallpaper texture.
The forum image size limitations mean this pic has been heavily reduced in size - originally rendered at 2560 x 2048 px using 4x AA the detail is superb IMHO - the resizing has lost some of that lovely detail like ther subtle texture on the painting.
As always your feedback is gratefully accepted, good or otherwise - let me know what you think.
Stephen
W!ZARD |
Post by Steinie // Apr 28, 2007, 10:39am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
Ok this is in the finished forum but I have to tell you one thing. If the two ships represent an oil painting then no matt is used. Oil painting rarely use matts where water colors almost always do. If your after the cheesy look with the pealing vinyl wall paper, chincy chain, some old trophy used as a vase...you did well.
Really nice piece. Want to sell a boat?;) (Just kidding I want to earn my results):) |
Post by prodigy // Apr 28, 2007, 2:18pm
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
Hi, nice work!!
I just only have a comment.. is dificult to me explain.. but the frame is to dark and it looks like its behind the picture and not upper..
5625
I just make this example to show what i try to say.. i think it needs be more brighten..
:)
Excelent work Wizard...
HOoo by the way.. try to increse the UV repetitions to reduce the texture size, i think the mesh is to big... |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 28, 2007, 10:08pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Hmmn - I guess this is not my most inspirational work - 105 views so far and only two comments?
Thanks Bob and Augusto for the feedback - as I said before it is most appreciated.
@Steinie - Yeah I'm aware that oil paintings don't usually have matts but prints of oil paintings often do. I was hoping to suggest that this wasn't actually a real old master by the " "'s around the title. It was supposed to be all a part of the cheesy look that is suggusted by the gross wallpaper and other elements that you noticed.
@Prodigy - You say the frame needs to be brighter but you don't say why? Most of the artwork in our house is original - either my own work or that of my partner and other local artists. We do have a few prints though as well and they all have quite dark matts. I was also going for that old seventies brown toned look so I'm quite content with it as it is.
I'm in agreement with you about the mesh however - I actually decreased the UV repititions to make the mesh bigger because I was getting ugly moire effects so that's something of a compromise.
Thanks again gentlemen. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Apr 29, 2007, 1:20am
|
TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
|
> 105 views so far and only two comments?
I think it's more a case of 'doesn't really float my boat' (if you'll excuse the rather obvious pun) rather than anything else. It's not in WIP so comments/suggestions for changes are not usually sought but, however, seeing as you're asking for them... the dreadful state of the wallpaper (nice job on those peels by the way) suggests the place is abandoned, derelict or extremely uncared for yet everything is so clean and shiny. Even the (strange looking) plant looks like it's been tended and the pot polished!
Just my view though. |
Post by jayr // Apr 29, 2007, 3:11am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
i love the plant in the silver vase, it looks great, very realistic |
Post by Nez // Apr 29, 2007, 10:38pm
|
Nez
Total Posts: 1102
|
I'm not sure if this is what Prodigy was getting at, but I couldn't quite decide if the 'border' around the picture was suuposed to be a 'mount' in front of the picture, or was representing the back of the picture frame, behind the picture. If it was a mount, it was deceptive as there didn't seem to be the depth to suggest any thickness in front of the picture. If it's the backboard to the frame (e.g. hardboard?) perhaps you could give a bit more thicnkess to the canvas to help it stand in front... It would certainly be a strange way to frame a picture if it is supposed to be the backboard showing, but clearly you're after a slightly unusual look anyway.
I quite lake the 'vase', although the handles don't seem to match in terms of texture? May just not be reflecting because they're 'flat'. Not keen on the objectthe vase stands on - can't quite make out what it is, but to me the colour/texture doesn't sit too well with everything else - can't quite put my finger on it.
I love the wallpaper though - looks great with it peeling away like that.
And the painting itself is good to.
Hope that makes sense.... |
Post by Steinie // Apr 30, 2007, 1:26am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
Their right! The top left of the Ship picture is behind the frame and the bottom right is in front. I think the shadows are giving us that illusion or the two planes are not parallel.
Also are you cheapening your own work by putting your ships in a terrible frame within a cheesy rendering? (which is your own work too)...cool:) |
Post by kena // Apr 30, 2007, 11:52am
|
kena
Total Posts: 2321
|
shadow at the top is the frame. may want to angle the light so it does not cast onto the picture and confuse people ;D |
Post by Morgan // Apr 30, 2007, 9:41pm
|
Morgan
Total Posts: 138
|
I like it. It's a quiet scene, but there's a lot of interesting work that went into creating it, and it looks nice.
The peeling wallpaper is a nice touch, incidentally. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 1, 2007, 1:13am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
It's weird how you can look at your own work and not see stuff that is obvious to others! Thanks for taking the time to explain what was happening visually for you all.
The picture plane is parallel and recessed behind the matt - it's all one object with the picture poly swept into the matt plane - if that makes sense?
The HDRI illumination by itself was not giving me sufficiently interesting shadows so I put an area light above and to one side of the picture frame. This casts a nice shadow from the top of the matt but does not define the edge of the matt, thus causing visual confusion. This is obviously a trap for young players and should serve to remind me to post to the WIP forum for your guys input before posting it as a final image:( . D'oh! You would think I would have learned that by now!
Thanks again for the input everyone. |
Post by Heidi // May 2, 2007, 7:41am
|
Heidi
Total Posts: 335
|
Hmm... how do I explain this....
First I really like the concept and the composition of the 'painting' is very reminiscent of an old master. AND I love your ship!
That said, I think that the overall impression I get sort of misses the mark. It lacks...um...drama. The focus on the painting seems 'soft' compaired to it's surroundings and my attention is drawn away from the painting to the other details. You might want to try different lighting. What if you darken the 'room' and put a spot, like a museum light, highlighting the painting? Maybe make the pattern on the wallpaper smaller (it sort of looks like it's a different scale than the painting). As someone else mentioned, I'd also remove the mat from the frame and extend the painting to the frame itself. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 3, 2007, 10:32pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Thanks Heidi - and everyone else.
Well this was supposed to be a finished image but given the feedback here I've decided to give it a bit more work and address many of the suggestions made here - you'll be pleased to know the matt is history - and I have a couple more little modelling jobs to add to this.
In the meantime, here's the 'Old Master' image before I 'aged' it - as it appears in this months Caligallery. I thought I'd put it in here for you folk to critique if you wish - I'm always interested in feedback :) .
I had some technical issues getting this rendered (in tS 7.11). I found I could render both ships but adding the gunfire lights and objects resulted in totally black images :( :mad: :confused: . I finally resorted to rendering one ship with it's gunfire to one image and the other ship with it's gunfire to a second image and combining them with the GIMP. The result is showing on the Caligari home page this month so I guess it can't be too bad;). The wakes were painted in post processing and are a weak point IMO. |
Post by Steinie // May 4, 2007, 3:28am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
Overall I like this render but here are my observations which are free (not worth much)
The contrast of the water doesn't match the ship's contrast. Nothing wrong with the waves but it has no depth.
The perspective of the left ships wake is not correct.
The two ship's flags do not share the same wind direction.
The sails on the left ship appear to be billowed the wrong way. (In not out)
The shadows on the sails are top to bottom but no apparent light source from the side.
The rigging catching the light on the right ship is excellent!
Those are the items I would look at to make this piece better. I really do want to see more of them! I hope you realize I'm nit picking!:) |
Post by Heidi // May 4, 2007, 5:24am
|
Heidi
Total Posts: 335
|
I love this image! :)
Which render engine were you using? Try increasing the size of your virtual memory if you're getting black renders. That's helped me.
I have two suggestions for the image. The first is that the sails look too dark. Especially with the sky that light and the angle of the sunlight, there would be more light passing through the sails. If you're using vRay you might consider some subsurface scattering.
Second is the perspective of the wake coming from the ship on the left. At that angle from the viewer, the end of the wake would probably spread to a point slightly less than 1/3 from the left across the bottom edge of the scene. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 5, 2007, 5:25am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Thanks Bob and Heidi for the comments.
@Steinie - "The contrast of the water doesn't match the ship's contrast. Nothing wrong with the waves but it has no depth". Hmmn, interesting - I suppose I can see what you mean but the sea does take most of it's colour from the sky - the material uses the LW mirror reflectance shader. So rather than contrast I suspect the difference is a result of the shadows on the ships - see also comments on lighting below.
"The perspective of the left ships wake is not correct". Chuckle! Guilty as charged - the wakes were added in post processing and I'm no master when it comes to 2d CG painting:( . The left hand ship )actually modelled on a 15th century Dutch frigate) should probably have a wider wake.
"The two ship's flags do not share the same wind direction". Yes they do - this is an optical illusion caused by the level of silhouette.
"The sails on the left ship appear to be billowed the wrong way. (In not out)." Do they? That's a concern as the sails on both ships do actually billow in the same direction - the 'wind' is blowing from directly behind the viewer, both ships are running before the wind aiming to obtain the greatest possible speed for combat manouvres.
"The shadows on the sails are top to bottom but no apparent light source from the side." I was aiming for a flat and almost non-directional light. Scene illumination comes mainly from an IBL (which I may have set too high above the sea plane) and a low intensity infinite light - I was going for an overcast sky look and this accounts for the perhaps slightly unnatural shadows. I specifically did not want the scene too bright as I wanted to emphasize the illumination coming from the muzzle flashes of the cannons.
"The rigging catching the light on the right ship is excellent!" I'm glad you approve! I was quite pleased with that myself.:p
"I hope you realize I'm nit picking!" LOL - Payback for picking on your pirate ship texture? ;)
@Heidi - Thanks Heidi. This is rendered with LightWave (I don't have V-ray cause it won't do mapped and layered textures). Normally windows just ups the virtual memory as required on it's own - or at least it does with tS 6.6 - I guess it could be different for tS 7.11?
re more light through the sails - I agree, I am starting to think I have the IBL positioned too high. There is some slight transparency in the galleons sails but not in the frigates. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 5, 2007, 5:43am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
We now return to the original picture in this thread (which should probably have been started in the WIP forum - :o but it's here now).
I've taken on board the comments offered earlier and made some additions and adjustments only to have run into a dilemma. I made one render with a sheet of glass over the painting as is common with reproduction prints and one without glass.
The story is that sitting all unknown and unnoticed on the wall in grannies chintzy and rundown seaside cottage kitchen is a valuable old marine painting - no one has realised it's true worth!
My dilemma is I can't decide which I prefer - with glass or without? My partner prefers the 'without' version - what do you think?
(Oh yeah - I finally finished my mantel clock from the speed challenge) |
Post by kena // May 5, 2007, 7:17am
|
kena
Total Posts: 2321
|
the second one. I think that is without. Oil paintings will go bad if you have them under glass, so they are not generally enclosed. :D |
Post by Heidi // May 6, 2007, 10:53am
|
Heidi
Total Posts: 335
|
I like the lower image (without glass) better too. :) |
Post by prodigy // May 6, 2007, 11:35am
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
Much Better Wiz!!! i like very much the frame now!!
:jumpy: Congratulations, excelent work! |
|
