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Safe Anchorage
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Safe Anchorage // Image Gallery
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 16, 2007, 3:23am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Here's my trusty old sailing ship, the SS Courage, at dawn after anchoring overnight in a sheltered cove.
The background plate was made with MojoWorld 3Pro.
Rendered with LightWorks in tS 7.5 using some of my favourite Lightworks features.
The water is two shallow cubes, one using the LW Shadowcatcher shader for the ships shadow and to allow the mojo water to show through. The other cube has a high transmission medium reflectance phong shader to create the ships reflections.
Lighting is one IBL angled and scaled and positioned to represent the sunlight glowing over the hills, using a simple white to black gradient for the ref image. A second IBL is scaled to provide overall scene illumination using the same image as the background shader for a reference image. There are 4 local lights for the ...er... local lights - one in the aft cabin and one in each of the stern lanterns.
Any comments are welcome but this picture is finished and I'll not likely be making any further changes to it. |
Post by rrf // Jun 16, 2007, 3:29am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I just love your work...what Great mood and feeling in each piece.
(joke mode starts here) But wait,...what's that up in the sky....a UFO!
(i know, I know, just the lights right? or maybe...) :)
rf |
Post by Steinie // Jun 16, 2007, 3:38am
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Steinie
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Really a nice rendering!
I do notice something missing. Where is your Signature? You don't want your stuff printed on cheap t-shirts at some souvenir shop in the Bahamas then worn by Abaco Bikini models do you? |
Post by jayr // Jun 16, 2007, 3:48am
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jayr
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I really like the lighting in this one. Are the things in the sky your Airship models? that'd make a cool image, the airships bombing the Tall ship |
Post by splinters // Jun 16, 2007, 3:59am
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splinters
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Those 'things' in the sky are very distracting-I thought I had a scratch on my monitor/ I would either make them bigger/clearer or just remove them to retain the simplicity of this piece.
Lovely piec of work though and nice to be able to say something positive in my...
2000th post! :D |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 16, 2007, 4:14am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Sweet.
I can almost hear the whaling songs and the clatter or rum jugs... way nice.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 16, 2007, 4:35am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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@ Steinie - "Bikini models ... um... er what was the question? Oh yeah, signature - thats actually a good idea Bob - I should probably start thinking about that. Hmmn... bikini models.....
Thanks for the comments everyone - re the 'things' in the sky, they are the same old flock of gulls that appear in many of my pictures, I think I originally made them with tS 3.2. I rendered this pic at 1280x1024 and it's fairly clear that they are birds - forum restrictions mean the reduced size which makes that a little less clear.
@ jayr - the airships bombing the tall ship? Nice idea if a little violent (you may be watching too many movies!) :D . Actually the tall ship is supposed to be on the same 'side' as the airships so in theory they shouldn't be shooting at each other. I do have some ideas for an air battle though, between the airships and ... a presently undefined enemy. I don't want to give you any spoilers yet...;)
@ Splinters - The big 2k - well done, I'm only just over my first 1k. It's an honour to have your 2000th post in my thread. |
Post by jayr // Jun 16, 2007, 5:01am
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jayr
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@ jayr - the airships bombing the tall ship? Nice idea if a little violent (you may be watching too many movies!) . Actually the tall ship is supposed to be on the same 'side' as the airships so in theory they shouldn't be shooting at each other. I do have some ideas for an air battle though, between the airships and ... a presently undefined enemy. I don't want to give you any spoilers yet...
How about refuling? There is a bit of a gap on the left hand side of the picture, like it's waiting for something. |
Post by kena // Jun 16, 2007, 7:10am
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kena
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The only crit I can place on this is that it is unbalanced. too much missing from the left of the picture. Other than that, it's a fab pic. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 16, 2007, 7:25am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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OriginallyI had my other ship model - the frigate - moored in the left hand 'gap' but the picture works way better without it. I also tried it with the galleon set centrally and at the traditional position one third of the way across the image. Neither of these positions worked as well as the current one IMO.
What I like about the current composition is that the eye is naturally drawn to the empty space, up the beach and into the low point in the rocks above the beach (this low point is at the third of the way across the picture position). This (hopefully) has the effect of leading the eye further into the landscape leaving us wondering what lies in those valleys beyond?
I didn't want a lot activity as it's just before dawn (sorry jayr, no refueling at this time of day). I also wanted to create a 'Picture of a landscape with a ship in it' rather than a 'Picture of a ship in a landscape'. The 'empty' area contributes to that feel, I think. At least that's the theory :D |
Post by Rareth // Jun 18, 2007, 5:05am
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Rareth
Total Posts: 149
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wow that looks great. nice conecpt on the image.
how is Mojo World working for you? I know you've used Vue in several images, how does Mojo world compare?
I have Vue 6 on my "To Buy" list mainly because it does terrains very well
(been playing with the Vue 6 infinite PLE.. its free), and one of the features
that caught my eye about Vue is that its supposed to import .cob files |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 19, 2007, 4:46am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks Rareth
I don't know anything about Vue 6 but I do have Vue 5 Esprit and I rather like it - although a lot of people don't. I think the trueSpaces LightWorks material editor is great so I tend to measure the material editors of other apps against that - and I think that Vue's ME is not that bad. I particularly like the lighting effects possible with Vue and the fact that it comes with some reasonable vegetation models.
Vue does indeed import .cob files directly but be warned that it only accepts .cobs from earlier versions of tS and it will not handle tS multi-layered textures. I've had some success using the LUUV plug in to export .obj files from tS to use in Vue. One does have to be creative with ones textures and object hierarchies though as Vue can get confused about which texture goes where. The usual cautions about tS meshes with holes definitely applies here.
Re MojoWorld - I played around with the free MW Transporter a few years back which was fun and I got some useable pictures from it. I now have the full MojoWorld 3 Pro edition which allows much greater control over the scenes you can make. I'm just scratching the surface of it at the moment (I'm also trying to learn tS 7.51 at the same time). I think it can be very good indeed in the hands of experienced users and I've created some picture with it which I think are quite acceptable.
MW is supposedly able to import various 3d file formats but I've yet to succeed in doing so - my first attempts to do so failed spectacularly! Also speaking as an artist I find the UI is probably more programmer friendly than it is artist friendly. Having said that it also has some good wizards and easily customised presets that do simplify things - oh yeah, and it's very slow to render when one has full shadows and reflections enabled but the results are worth waiting for IMO.
One feature I really appreciate is the so-called uplink queue which allows you to set up a series of renders then go to bed while the queue processes the waiting renders. One other drawback is that MW is not optimised for multicore PC's which means on my machine it's only using half the available CPU cycles.
In the final analysis software - any software - has it's strengths and it's weaknesses - the trick is always to find those strengths and use them to the best advantage. One place where I find MW and Vue to be really useful is in the making of background plates for use in tS.
Hope this helps |
Post by om1nous // Jun 19, 2007, 5:49am
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om1nous
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The angle of the picture is all I'd really adjust.. The camera is so much on the side that it gives a strong desire to see more to the left/right sides to see where the ship is going. Sort of has a horizontal claustrophobia to it. If the angle of the shot had more dimension to the ship I think I'd think about that less. Like placing the camera closer to shore, looking more at the front right face of the ship, as if the ship is coming closer to the camera. I'd also place the camera closer to the water to make the ship feel a bit bigger. Right now it's definitely an afterthought and you're drawing more eye to the landscape. It just makes me want to see more landscape or more boat..
I love the light setup and the painting-esque feel to it. Sort of gives it a dated look :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 19, 2007, 7:30am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks om1nous (cool handle BTW). You're not the only one to mention the layout of the picture. I like the way you describe it as 'horizontal claustrophobia'.
Maybe not so easy to see at this resolution but the ship is infact at anchor - there is an anchor chain at the bow so it's not going anywhere. As I said in an earlier post this is a picture of a landscape with a ship in it rather than a picture of a ship in a landscape.
Interestingly I've posted this pic on several MojoWorld galleries and no-one has mentioned this issue - perhaps because they see a MojoWorld render (ie a landscape) with a ship in it. Here on a trueSpace gallery we are accustomed to seeing the trueSpace modelling as the central feature of the image - but that was never my intention with this picture.
It was always my intention to draw the eye initially to the landscape and away from the ship - this was a deliberate ploy. I've quoted my own post (hope I don't go blind!) below addressing this point further. Check out my Rendo gallery (link at bottom of sig) for more images featuring this ship.
Thanks again
OriginallyI had my other ship model - the frigate - moored in the left hand 'gap' but the picture works way better without it. I also tried it with the galleon set centrally and at the traditional position one third of the way across the image. Neither of these positions worked as well as the current one IMO.
What I like about the current composition is that the eye is naturally drawn to the empty space, up the beach and into the low point in the rocks above the beach (this low point is at the third of the way across the picture position). This (hopefully) has the effect of leading the eye further into the landscape leaving us wondering what lies in those valleys beyond?
I didn't want a lot activity as it's just before dawn (sorry jayr, no refueling at this time of day). I also wanted to create a 'Picture of a landscape with a ship in it' rather than a 'Picture of a ship in a landscape'. The 'empty' area contributes to that feel, I think. At least that's the theory :D |
Post by Michael Billard // Jun 20, 2007, 8:00am
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Michael Billard
Total Posts: 125
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Hm... I wonder what the airships would do battle with? Perhaps a pair of F-35B Lightning II JSF STOVL fighters? :) I like your work. I do the rough equivalent to 4th grader art and keep wondering how folks like you figure out the lighting and tricks with atmosphere/water so well. Are there magazines and books that talk about that sort of thing? |
Post by jayr // Jun 20, 2007, 8:09am
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jayr
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keep wondering how folks like you figure out the lighting and tricks with atmosphere/water so well
Mostly tricks and tips you pick up from other users, tutorials, books and experience really.
Are there magazines and books that talk about that sort of thing?
Loads of them! Try 3D World and ImagineFX for the magazines. As for books, i'd recomend Digital lighting and rendering by Jeremy Birn, have a look for it on amazon, but really just have a look around the net for tutorials, they're usually cheaper. Start here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/forumdisplay.php?f=62 |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 21, 2007, 3:24am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hm... I wonder what the airships would do battle with? Perhaps a pair of F-35B Lightning II JSF STOVL fighters? :) I like your work. I do the rough equivalent to 4th grader art and keep wondering how folks like you figure out the lighting and tricks with atmosphere/water so well. Are there magazines and books that talk about that sort of thing?
Hi Michael What would they battle with? I've had lots of ideas about that - Bi-planes similar to WW1 vintage like Sopworth Camels, flocks (or should that be herds?) of fire breathing dragons, other airships or super advanced alien UFO's - I even wondered about some Apache gunships!
Re lighting and tricks with atmos etc - I was a keen amateur photographer with an interest in popular physicsw (if there is such a thing). Alos I've done several courses of evening classes in painting and figure painting (excellent for really teaching you to see with the eye rather than with the mind).
Jayr has got it right though, tips and tricks and input from othewr artists, tutorials and experience. One thing that helped me a lot was reading the manual from cover to cover then selecting an obscure tool or feature and figuring out how ton use it in a pictorial fashion.
One of the best sources for inspiration is these forums and the archives, also places like Renderosity.com, 3dcommune.com where you can look at other peoples art and try to find a way of creating your own version or interpretation of a common theme.
BTW speaking of 3dcommune I note with some pleasure that this picture is featured on this weeks 3dc newsletter. :D |
Post by om1nous // Jun 21, 2007, 4:58am
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om1nous
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Maybe not so easy to see at this resolution but the ship is infact at anchor
You're right, I didn't even notice it was anchored but I didn't see any water distortion from movement so I sort of presumed it from that. It's a task some people don't do though so you never know if someone just plopped a ship in a scene to see how it looks before they render water distortion (or more likely, photoshop it in), or if the ship is actually still. I know it's a still ship now that you said it but I guess lacked the visual clues to derrive that myself.
Even still, the water surrounding the ship is affected by the solid surface in a 'softening' manner (when currents are small and you're close to land) and the reflection of the ship would be much stronger and a smidge flatter closer to the ship.
As I said in an earlier post this is a picture of a landscape with a ship in it rather than a picture of a ship in a landscape .... I've quoted my own post..
Yep I read the whole post before I commented. I know the layout is just as important but honestly your eye is designed to make out 'objects'. It's our human nature to catagorize and understand that which we see. The landscape to the eye is uninteresting by nature, less there be something to notice that's unusual. In this picture the two most interesting areas to my eye are the sun and the ship. The sun being the lesser of interesting objects. The rest of the colors were designed to be sunset (or morning?) which in itself is a way of removing detail (light, contrast) from a scene to mute it.
Thus the ship ends up standing out quite a bit no matter what you do. It's the only object to me. The rest of flattened into being 'nature' and I don't consider it to be a subject, especially with dusk muting out the contrast. The lack of contrast and nearly misty atmosphere makes me not want to focus on it. Almost like you're deliberately shooing my eyes from it because eyeballs crave detail. So, I focus on the ship..
MojoWorld
Yes I could potentially be biased admittedly because this observation is correct. We're in a context here and it definitely affects how we perceive. Though I do step back and look at art from the angle of realism, as that's just how I perceive things. What stands out to me tends to be what I think is wrong with a picture rather than what I like or what visually stimulates me. And I viewed this from that rather than from a modeling perspective or assuming the truespace portion was the subject. Mostly because I thought you did the entire thing in TS, perhaps?
What still stands out as wrong to me is the angle of either the camera or the ship. I want to see more perspective to the picture and it's very much like a side view of a scene. The depth is a little flatter because you're looking nearly perpendicular to both the ship and the shore. Yes, there's a slight angle, but not enough to induce depth to me. So I crave some depth is all. An angled view feels more organic and like life, whereas a sidescape tends to feel more like well, a picture or art (which is well, not real, even if it depicts real life).
Overall it's a soothing picture. Who doesn't like a beach, or a sunset on the beach at that? The ship seems to almost interfere with my serenity with the landscape though. Seems like a bit of an afterthought. Like it was tossed in just because you had it in your object library ;). I'd be just as happy with the picture without the ship.. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 21, 2007, 10:31pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks for the extended insight into your point of view. I can see where you are coming from with regard to the position and angle of the ship though this picture is pretty much how I wanted it to be.
I like the ambiguity of the subject and the placement of the ship. I like that the eye is drawn into the landscape only to find little to see there and thus get drawn back to the ship.
A crucial factor determining the angle of the ship is that the background plate from MojoWorld is a 'telephoto' render where the camera is zoomed quite extensively - this has the effect of visually flattening the depth perspective of the landscape. Because the ship is rendered in trueSpace without such a strong telephoto camera having the ship either scaled up or at a more acute angle created a visual disconnect that was too strong.
That perspective mismatch is still present as it is which may contribute to your perception that the ship was an after thought - it wasn't an afterthought, I constructed the MojoWorld planet specifically for a beach scene against which to anchor my ship.
To be honest I completely overlooked the difference in 'focal lengths' between the MW render and the tS render so now, thanks to your feedback I've learnt something of great value, om1nous. I shall be sure to take greater care over this aspect of matching background renders to forground in future. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 21, 2007, 10:35pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I'd be just as happy with the picture without the ship..
Here ya go.... ;) |
Post by om1nous // Jun 22, 2007, 3:12am
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om1nous
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:D Thanks, I'll use it as a wallpaper for a while, it's nice and soothing :)
And take all that with a grain of salt.. It's just observations but opinions are like.... erm.. ya ;) |
Post by Nez // Jul 2, 2007, 12:47am
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Nez
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W!zard - any chance you could share the settings used on your 'compositing cubes'?
I tried to do something similar as an exercise and could get a shallow cube working correctly with the shadow catcher shader, but had a lot of trouble with the reflective object - I think I finally got one but when combined with the shadow catcher, the reflections then disappeared... It would be useful to know the shader settings you used and how you positioned the two cubes relative to each other.
Thanks |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 3, 2007, 11:09am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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W!zard - any chance you could share the settings used on your 'compositing cubes'?
I tried to do something similar as an exercise and could get a shallow cube working correctly with the shadow catcher shader, but had a lot of trouble with the reflective object - I think I finally got one but when combined with the shadow catcher, the reflections then disappeared... It would be useful to know the shader settings you used and how you positioned the two cubes relative to each other.
Thanks
Sure Nez - anything for a fellow Kentian!
First suggestion, I know I said cubes but you'll probably find it easier using simple planes.
I generally set up a plane (or shallow cube) and paint it with the shadow catcher and tweak as required until the shadows are of an acceptable colour and depth.
Next step is to copy the plane (or cube). There are two steps required to get the result we're after.
First, position the reflecting plane a gnats whisker higher than the shadow plane.
Next, repaint the reflecting plane with a suitable reflectance shader (I often use the "Mirror" shader) and add a subtle bump map if required.
The second vital step is to apply the simple alpha setting to the colour channel which gives you the ability to vary the transparency of the reflection allowing the shadows and the background image to show through.
I find using a high reflectance value and a high alpha value gives good results.
Here is an older image I did using this technique - the background is something I made with Terragen, loaded into the background shader. One plane is aligned to match the sea level and shadow catcher is applied. A duplicate plane, moved up a tad and painted with high reflectance and high alpha transpancy provides the shadows and the reflection of the model ship.
Finally, and fiddliest of all to tweak, is the addition of fog.
For the lighting in these types of pics I almost always use Image Based Lights and another light to represent the sunlight.
A couple of tips that may help - this technique requires a lot of render-tweak-render-tweak so it can be useful to place your models on a single layer and surrogate lowpoly objects on a different layer which you can hide and show as required. Additionally, the combination reflection, transpancy, IBL's and fog can lead to long render times - the area render button is your friend here!
The above only applies to the LightWorks renderer of course, and works in tS 5.x, 6.x and the model side of tS 7.x. It also depends heavily on the Background Image Shader (the one Tom thinks no one uses ;) ) and can't be done without it AFAIK.
I hope that helps Nez and please don't hesitate to ask if you need more info. I'm happy to share the settings that I've used but they will be different for each picture. |
Post by rrf // Jul 3, 2007, 11:21am
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rrf
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W!ZARD,
The one with the Long ship is very soothing - you do (and have done) such Great stuff :)
rf |
Post by Nez // Jul 3, 2007, 11:02pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Thanks W!zard, I'll have another go and see if I get a bit further this time. As I'm on TS5, the technique should be fine - I'm trying with a Terragen image too and was experimenting with a low-poly 'boat' as I don't actually have a specific scene in mind at present, just trying to see if I can get an acceptable result.
Based onyour earlier comment, I'd tried two shallow cubes, but in exactly the same position, which may well be causing part of the problem (I've found before that results can be unpredicatable if surfaces coincide) - I did try lifting the 'reflector' cube slightly higher but found the edges showed conspicuously, but this should be resolved if I use a plane instead, so I'll have a try with that.
I'm new to IBLs too and have found them incredibly slow on my pc - what kind of quality settings do you normally use? Do you have it casting shadow too, or just the 'sun' light?
And I've never used fog, so am open to suggestions on good settings for this.
I'll have a go and see how I get on, maybe email you the result for comments or put it in a WIP as it would derail this thread if I keep going on... Much appreciate your suggestions - and I really like that last example image with the Terragen scenery. (and well done on more honourable mentions in the Caligari gallery) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 3, 2007, 11:27pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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You're welcome Nez.
Re IBL's yeah they are slow but so worth the wait that I use them a lot. I have even used two IBLs at once with a small one angled in the sky to represent the sun - this can give nice soft raycast shadows.
I generally use the IBL at it's default setting, I hide the image itself, and use raycast shadows. I've raised the resolution from the default 8 to 12 a couple of times when multiple shadows were a problem (which can arise if you're using a contrast reference image).
Fog is great IMO and almost always adds depth to a picture - well the type of pictures I make anyway. Again it's difficult to talk about specific settings as it is affected by so many variables - especially the scale of your scene.
A couple of methods I use - when working with ground fogs it can be really helpful to set the fog colour to something really bright - like firetruck red - whilst setting distance and height parameters. With both types of fog I usually multiply the default settings by ten to get really over the top fog effects then progressively halve the setting until I get a density I like.
It can be really useful to use the area render button to render just a small area of screen when setting ther fog. The beauty of this tool is you can render a small area, adjust your fog setting and render another small area next to the first rendered area and compare the difference.
Finally - sometimes it's actually easier to add the fog in post processing. There is a free tsx called ZRender (I think from CK gamefactory) that will work with tS 5 - It produces a greyscale image that gets darker further into the scene which you can use as a blending mask in your favourite 2d graphics editor - like the GIMP. This technique gives you instant feedback on the amount of fog in your finished article and is one way of getting both ground fog and distance fog in the same picture.
HTH |
Post by Nez // Jul 4, 2007, 4:42am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Thanks for the detailed response! Folling some more experimentation, it seems some thnigs are never quite as easy as you might hope.. :rolleyes:
Have sorted out my refelective layer and can get now get a shadow and reflection that I'm happy with - so first major hurdle achieved. But if I add a raycasting shadowcasting IBL, I get some very strange shadowing going on, and no obvious 'colouring' of the light. May just be the IBL settings, plus the background I'm using is pretty contrasty, but I don't think an IBL may be all that vital in this experiment anyway.
With regards fog - what a pain! TS5 fog has no effect on the background shader, so is basically useless for these type of compositions using a matte. The depth cue post-process won't even permit a background shader, so it's not as if I can use that either. And Zrender, whilst it looks useful for somethings, also can't detect a background shader and hence can't create a proper mask for a simple composition. I guess I could apply the background to a plane, create a zrender mask based on that, composit a new background using this image and then add that to my background shader and apply fog to match, effecting only my foreground objects...! Or I can use terragen backgrounds that include some fog and try to create some fog that only affects my foreground objects, but the compositing may be awkward...
Anyway, I've made some progress today, so thanks for your help. Fog may have to wait for the moment...
NB - off topic, but rather than a 'Kentian', I'm technically a 'Man of Kent'...:p http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/places/features/manofkent_kentishman.shtml |
Post by jayr // Jul 4, 2007, 6:02am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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i always liked to use an infinite light as the main light source and an IBL to fill in the 'bounced' light. Worked well in sunset/ sunrise images where you had a strong, coloured light. i used that set up here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2461 |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 4, 2007, 5:11pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Have sorted out my refelective layer and can get now get a shadow and reflection that I'm happy with - so first major hurdle achievedYay! That's good progress right there!:)
Adding the raycasting shadowcasting IBL can add the shadow artifacts you're talking about - the secret is to set the shadows transparency to 'transparent' rather than the default 'solid' - sorry I should have mentioned this! The good news is this should fix the strange shadowing, the bad news is this will add another hit to your render times as transparent shadows take more calcultions and an IBL generally has 8 light points to calculate (you can reduce the IBL resolution but this won't look as good - though it may be a way to get faster test renders while you are setting things up.
Jayr's method also works well. Personally I prefer to take the longer render time penalty and use the aforementioned transparent shadows on the IBL - the result always looks better to me than just using the IBL with no shadows for colouration.
With regards fog - what a pain! TS5 fog has no effect on the background shader, so is basically useless for these type of compositions using a matte. Yep! You got that right! Adding and adjusting fog components is a time consuming process - there are ways to shorten the render times of your test renders but still expect the fog set up to take as much if not more time than the light set-up.:(
However the fact that the tS background shader does not detect the tS fog is actually highly advantageous in many cases, particularly when the background image has a foggy or hazy appearence. This allows the amount of fog obscuring your models to be matched to the amount of 'fogginess' in your background shader - my recent airship picture relies on this effect.
In situations where you also want your background image to be affected by the tS fog there are several solutions:
One is to paint your background image on to a suitably positioned cube or plane and dispence with the background shader all together. This also has the advantage of giving you control over the brightness of the background image.
Another technique: use your chosen image in the background shader and place a plane at the back of your scene that obscures the background fully. Paint this plane with a simple colour shader and maximise it's alpha transparency - tS will register the plane and render the fog against it - this is a simple workaround but will again involve a hit to your render times.
BTW You can simulate ground fog - or fog that attenuates with altitude - by making your alpha plane really large and tilting the top edge toward your camera. :cool:
Re the depth cue - I've never used it nor can I recall ever seeing a picture where someone has stated that they used it!
Re ZRender - with this handy tool you select the 'near' point, where the fog effect begins, and the 'far' point, where it reaches 100%. Anything beyond the 'far' point will render as solid white - including the background shader.
This is actually ok in most cases as you will be blending the original colour render with the ZRender image and can control the degree of blend by adjusting the layer opacity in your 2d editor.
A quick example:
1st image is original fogless render from tS
2nd image is the output from tS using the ZRender .tsx.
Bottom image is simply the combination of the first two images. Each image is on seperate layer of The GIMP, blend mode is 'screen' with the ZRender layers opacity at around 50%. Note that the 'sky' image (originally in the tS background shader) can still be seen.
There's lots of other ways to blend the two layers, depending on what you are looking for - there is also lots of control over the degree of blend by adjusting layer opacity and or the contrast/brightness of the ZRender image.
The beauty of this approach is that you have real time feedback as to the amount of fog you add to your picture.
Re "Kentians" - I knew that a Kentish man and a Man of Kent were from opposite sides of the river - I just couldn't remember offhand which was which so I played safe. Thanks for the interesting link - seems that I too am a Man of Kent though I suspect Mad Mouse is a Kentish Man (or should that be Kentish Mouse?) |
Post by Nez // Jul 4, 2007, 10:30pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Wow, thanks, some great ideas/techniques there to try out. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping would make it into the Tutorium section really - tips on setting up scenes, clever lighting, compositing, etc - especially for those of us who don't have/use VRay...
Lots of things to go away and try - one of them I did try, and that was using my background image on a plane rather than as a bg shader - but them the shadow catcher wouldn't work properly!
But anyway, you've given me a great deal of food for thought - a veritable banquet in fact, so I look forward to gorging myself on some extended experimentation! The last section on how you'd set up the Zrender shot (in terms of layer settings etc) should also be a big help - I was trying to apply the Zrender layer as a mask to a plain white overlay, or something like that I think... Why does your Zrender image look to be in shades of green rather than grey? Is that a deliberate change to give a colour cast to the fog effect?
Finally - you've done me plenty of favours already, but are there any useful tips you can think of for actually getting the view to match - or at least appear close to - the perspective/camera settings of the background matte? Or is it just a case of your photograhic experience and some trial and error getting a close match?
Cheers! |
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