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D3D TRT Scene - Vray Render Bug
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D3D TRT Scene - Vray Render Bug // Bugs
Post by xmanflash // May 11, 2007, 2:17am
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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I loaded this scene, an just rendered it with vray 1.5 - it looks nothing like it should.. ??
On fiddling around, it looks just like the scene in the 'model' window - no reflections just weird icons. I thought Vray worked from the Workspace now? |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2007, 2:26am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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xmanflash,
I don't think your post gives enough info. Can you post the render or screen shot?
-Jack. |
Post by Délé // May 11, 2007, 2:39am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Are you rendering from the Workspace side? If you try to render with Vray from the model side it will use old Vray and render the model view, you have to use the render buttons on the Workspace side to render the Workspace with the new Vray (in the toolbar at the bottom).
hth |
Post by xmanflash // May 11, 2007, 2:53am
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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Hi Dele, Yes - thats the one I used - I literally just loaded that demo model (the Projector example) and hit the Vray render button. Instead of nice reflections in the mirror, I got a D3D icon and some other weird icon type stuff..
I suspect Vray may not be able to render an image from the Camera Video stream? Image attached for Jack :-) |
Post by trueBlue // May 11, 2007, 3:09am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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You can Render to file from Workspace but not with Vray. Just like some materials do not work with Vray this is one of them. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2007, 3:15am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Interesting, Xmanflash.
I think the problem is probably because that scene doesn't use V-Ray shaders, rather the realtime DX shaders.
Just a guess, but I think that Dele's texture animation script might be able to help with this.
-Jack. |
Post by prodigy // May 11, 2007, 3:54am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Sure you cant.... That only works for Real Time render... so you can't render on Vray or Lightworks...;) |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // May 11, 2007, 4:34am
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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That would be a very special case indeed. I think it would be possible with shaderlab to create something akin to this for lightworks though. Would take a bit of scripting and the projection's camera location would have to be set manually and wouldn't animate in location.
Vray answer to this would be a 2+ pass render I would think (more passes required if barbershop mirror effect is in place). Use the camera angle to render a texture then paint the plane with the texture... lather, rinse, repeat as necessary. You may have to use a script to achieve texture animation at the moment for Vray. |
Post by trueBlue // May 11, 2007, 4:37am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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After fooling around with this scene I found a way to render it with Vray.
In the LE go to D3D Texture render target panel and set Preview refresh to 1 and then back to 0. Now select Vray Render Scene. You can go inside the Cube, 1 and Right click/select Reset the Bitmap B and NormalMap for cleaner look. |
Post by TomG // May 11, 2007, 4:40am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hi all,
Shaders are always render engine specific. They make calls to the render engines code and receive replies from it, so they can't just be moved from one engine to another.
The real-time view is its own render engine. Best approach now is not to think of it as "just the preview in tS" but as a true render engine. It's one that happens to be always on, and happens to be generating the images you use to model 60 times a second on your monitor, but other than that it is no different.
So, this means that shaders written for it are no different - they use the render engine to achieve their result. In the case of the shader you are looking at, it does indeed capture an image from the real-time scene and then reuse it in the same scene.
Since it is capturing the image from the real-time engine, V-Ray cannot render it - it has no access to the real-time engine.
Basically, each engine takes the scene - the definitions of the geometry, lighting, textures, shadows, etc - and then does the math to turn it into a picture. They don't share anything along the way, so they don't swap calculations between each other etc. They branch off and become independent at the point the scene data is sent to them.
There are many real-time shaders that will be dependent on the real-time engine, and so will not work with any of the offine engines (just as the offline engines have shaders unique to them, that the other offline engines can't use).
Note that this means one scene can look very different in each engine. You do need to think about which engine is the one intended to produce the final result, as that will determine your choice of shaders, your choice of lighting, etc. The earlier you plan that is usually better - you can convert, repainting the shaders etc, but if you plan ahead what engine your scene is intended for, it can make things easier along the way :)
HTH!
Tom
EDIT - hi trueBlue, that's an interesting way to do things - does it "freeze" the image on the cube at the time you make the LE edit? Or will it update normally before rendering?
EDIT 2 - its a clever idea, it is basically ensuring the real-time engine finishes its work painting the object before V-Ray renders, so in effect doing a "baking" of the texture on to the object before V-Ray grabs the scene data. The possibilties are endless, users will conceive of many more ways to do things than we could ever think of :) |
Post by Délé // May 11, 2007, 4:50am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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After fooling around with this scene I found a way to render it with Vray.
In the LE go to D3D Texture render target panel and set Preview refresh to 1 and then back to 0. Now select Vray Render Scene. You can go inside the Cube, 1 and Right click/select Reset the Bitmap B and NormalMap for cleaner look.While everyone else is partying in the living room, you're always rummaging around in the basement figuring stuff like this out. lol :p Glad you are though. :) |
Post by trueBlue // May 11, 2007, 4:50am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Looks like you have to refresh it each time. Not sure how to use the refresh at the moment but setting it to 1 causes it to refresh. |
Post by trueBlue // May 11, 2007, 5:16am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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While everyone else is partying in the living room, you're always rummaging around in the basement figuring stuff like this out. lol :p Glad you are though. :)
Can you dig it? :p I can dig it! :cool: I just remembered that I did this with the Mirror in Parva's House scene with your Campfire script in his fireplace. Which renders nicely in Vray BTW. Parva should sell his scene to tS7.5 users for it is top notch and really shows off the Realtime Workspace Renderer. Caligari's Developers have developed an OUTSTANDING program with endless possibilities. |
Post by xmanflash // May 11, 2007, 7:10am
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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After fooling around with this scene I found a way to render it with Vray.
In the LE go to D3D Texture render target panel and set Preview refresh to 1 and then back to 0. Now select Vray Render Scene. You can go inside the Cube, 1 and Right click/select Reset the Bitmap B and NormalMap for cleaner look.
Brilliant! - thanks :D |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2007, 7:16am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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The solution I had been envisioning was to re-extract the realtime image each frame then use a script apply it as a texture each frame. Which is why I mentioned Dele's script.
Very cool work trueBlue :)
BTW, you wouldn't have happened to have solved the way to edit the vertex data of existing meshes have you? :D
-Jack. |
Post by trueBlue // May 11, 2007, 7:33am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Have not tried but I bet when Refresh is set to something other then 0 you might be able to render to file with a properly set up scene/animation.
As for Vertex data I think not. Way over my head, but the Macro recorders does record PE. This was generated PE'ing one Point on Primitive Cube.
// Macro captured 05/11/07 10:25:50
function Execute(params)
{
sel = Node.Selection();
for (i = 0; i < Node.SelectionLength(sel); i++)
{Node.Select(Node.SelectionGetAt(sel, i)); ApplyMacro(Node.SelectionGetAt(sel, i))};
}
function ApplyMacro(selectedObj_)
{
ScriptObject.RunCmd("widgets package/activate managed widget",
"Nodes list", selectedObj_, "User parameters", "",
"Widget group", "{5C9008D4-B6B3-4359-9E63-18D2FC228A6E}",
"Widget", "/Widgets/Edit/Point edit widget", "Aspect", "Default")
// script form for 'Widget:Basic select 'not available
Widgets.Move(selectedObj_,0.000,1.775,0.000);
Node.Select(selectedObj_)
} |
Post by trueBlue // May 11, 2007, 8:09am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Here is kind of an interesting find. Substitute the Head with the head from Translucent Material scene. I used the Look at tool with Camera to head and positioned as shown. Render from Camera or View works with Vray BTW. But notice that Vray renders the head in Mirror but not scene? Hummm could lead to other possibilities with Vray and Non Vray materials too. I love this D3D TRT whatever it is. Lots of possibilities. I hope that this will work in the upcoming truePlay so we can have mirrors in truePlaces. Would be kinda cool if you could see your Avatar's reflection too. One Eyed check :p |
Post by camelot // May 11, 2007, 12:26pm
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camelot
Total Posts: 68
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After fooling around with this scene I found a way to render it with Vray.
In the LE go to D3D Texture render target panel and set Preview refresh to 1 and then back to 0. Now select Vray Render Scene. You can go inside the Cube, 1 and Right click/select Reset the Bitmap B and NormalMap for cleaner look.
What exactly is 'the LE'? Elsewhere in the forum, much has been made of the number of new members - of which I am one - which is obviously good for all TS users. It would be great if you guys remember that newbies look at your posts as well as the more experienced users, and please try to be a bit more specific. |
Post by stoker // May 11, 2007, 12:29pm
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stoker
Total Posts: 506
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What exactly is 'the LE'?
Link Editor;) |
Post by camelot // May 11, 2007, 12:33pm
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camelot
Total Posts: 68
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Link Editor;)
Thank you Mark! |
Post by roman // May 11, 2007, 12:47pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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What exactly is 'the LE'? Elsewhere in the forum, much has been made of the number of new members - of which I am one - which is obviously good for all TS users. We had to hide LE (Link Editor) behind Animation Editor (AE) as many users did not like it in Default view. It is realy easy to get to, click on dimension aspect on AE window and switch from 4D to 2D. This is what dimensions mean:
1D - text editor (for scripts)
2D - Link Editor (like scripts, kind of visual programming by linking objects)
3D - workspace or model
4D - Adds time dimension
I recomend a bit of TM (transcendental meditation) and chant 1D-2D-3D-4D, after a few hours it will sound pretty profound, you may even see white light enveloping you:) |
Post by camelot // May 11, 2007, 1:08pm
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camelot
Total Posts: 68
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We had to hide LE (Link Editor) behind Animation Editor (AE) as many users did not like it in Default view. It is realy easy to get to, click on dimension aspect on AE window and switch from 4D to 2D. This is what dimensions mean:
1D - text editor (for scripts)
2D - Link Editor (like scripts, kind of visual programming by linking objects)
3D - workspace or model
4D - Adds time dimension
I recomend a bit of TM (transcendental meditation) and chant 1D-2D-3D-4D, after a few hours it will sound pretty profound, you may even see white light enveloping you:)
Why, thank you Roman for your recommendation!
However, lots of white light isn't conducive to good renders.
Now you have lots of time on your hands, could you please chant tutorials for newbies-tutorials for newbies-tutorials for newbies and maybe you might see some more customers:D |
Post by roman // May 11, 2007, 2:23pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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Now you have lots of time on your hands, could you please chant tutorials for newbies-tutorials for newbies-tutorials for newbies and maybe you might see some more customers:DLots of free time hah! But I am chanting "I will, I will I will". Also "I will, You will, We will" It is realy easy to record tutorials with Camtasia or even with built in 3D recorder. I am hoping community will rise to the challenge, but of course Caligari must take the lead, so "I will, I will, I will". |
Post by Steinie // May 11, 2007, 3:12pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Roman forgot about the user's "Tutorium" right here for you. You make a request and the users will try to design a Tutorial for you.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/index.php
Just scroll down.:) |
Post by camelot // May 12, 2007, 12:38am
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camelot
Total Posts: 68
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Lots of free time hah! But I am chanting "I will, I will I will". Also "I will, You will, We will" It is realy easy to record tutorials with Camtasia or even with built in 3D recorder. I am hoping community will rise to the challenge, but of course Caligari must take the lead, so "I will, I will, I will".
Thank you, Roman. That's good to know you're on the case.
Steinie,
Thanks for the pointer to tutorial requests. I have been asked to create a 3D exploded view of a simple pump assembly for a new website I am writing. Whilst I can manage most of it, there are a couple of features that I haven't a clue how to create using trueSpace. I will post my predicament to the tutorial requests later today and hope this fine community can help. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 12, 2007, 12:42am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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camelot,
You may also want to consider starting a thread in the "Work in progress" section so people can help you with the specific problems you are having with getting your project implemented. That's what a peer support group is all about. :)
-Jack. |
Post by camelot // May 12, 2007, 12:58am
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camelot
Total Posts: 68
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camelot,
You may also want to consider starting a thread in the "Work in progress" section so people can help you with the specific problems you are having with getting your project implemented. That's what a peer support group is all about. :)
-Jack.
Cheers for that Jack. I can see that I should be able to get all the help I need here! Will post to "Work in progress" instead. :banana:
Brian |
Post by prodigy // Aug 14, 2007, 3:54pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Lol... i found the same!! hhahahha sure several months later.. :D
Here is a small video showing a vray render with render to texture.
What ever... that works good.. ;) |
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