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I am very frustrated and disappointed
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I am very frustrated and disappointed // Rants and Raves
Post by weaveribm // Aug 12, 2007, 3:46pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I have a problem with lighting/glass in 7.51/Vray7.52 which appears to be a bug or at least unexpected behaviour in a fundamental render not covered in the manual
I see a report that this black edge is not a problem in an earlier Vray build
I take the scene over to 7.5. Libraries, textures you know the form.
Now I can't get an infinite light to shine through a hole in a wall. I can't get an infinite light at 12.25 on the Luminance scale in the same room to show through a hole in a wall. I know the infinite light has only direction and magnitude - it's difficult not to curse at this point but manners Peter <deep breaths> but what's up with this scene now it's more than a man can bear without deep slugs of livener. Yep always helps :)
In 7.52 I found that the Directional light works, shows in Workspace and very nice too. But then it does not work under Modelspace - report nearby
Now the new infinite light that I created to replace the infinite light before that would not allow linear falloff - insisted on being logarithmic - is hugely bright in Workspace and dead in Modelspace.
Will someone for the love of all that's Holy please have a word with the Caligari team and please ask them politely to tell me what's going on I'm in danger of asking my financial controller (she'd call me her financial drain) :) for loads of cash for something that will help me do my work without this eternal wrangling. My modest community work. How could anyone consider using TrueSpace where their livelihood depended on it I'm shaking my head here in the Rants forum, it's so close to being a very useful application but after offering chapter and verse in bug reports and hearing nothing positive or even an official reply... and now the workaround, going back to an earlier TS version - has yet another problem that's taking hours and hours to solve
Peter
See I'm trying to be positive I'm not just throwing my hands up here...
Model window, infinite light in the room. It does not matter where the Inflight is located, no light gets through the hole in the wall. No glass in window
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/OnFinals/InflightIntheRoomAndBright.png
Vray from Model window. Where's the Inflight light? No glass in window
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/OnFinals/NowBackOn7.5SettingUp8.png |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 12, 2007, 6:48pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi Peter, we've all been there...
Here's a ray of hope though...:)
Attached you will find a zipfile below the following images. These images themselves show that what you are trying to do in this specific case is in fact possible with Vray 1.52, so hang in there my friend... the solution draws near.;)
After reading this post of yours I set out to duplicate your dilemma by creating a cube, shelling it, boolean subtracting a window in it, and throwing one of my DX9 texture mods on it which (sometimes) looks good in Vray too.
I then loaded it into Worskspace / Workplace... (whatever it's called!), went into the LE and deleted every light except 1 Infinite Light.
Then I proceeded to play with ~ALL~ the settings both in the LE and the Stack in relation to the object, the light, vray rendering, vray GI.... etcetera until I arrived at a solution. That all took quite a while for me too, by the way, so "I feel your pain.";)
Anyhow... it does in fact work although this is asthetically a terrible example of that fact, still it should serve for the purpose of (1) Demonstrating Proof of Concept, and (2) Providing you with the Vray 1.52 settings I used to accomplish it.
Within the zipfile I'm uploading below the images here you will find quite a few files, here's what they are:
1) Reference copies of the images I'm placing in this thread.
2) The actual trueSpace 7.51 RsScn file.
3) An "Archived" version of this same scene created via Modelside. This "archived" version contains a (Modelside) "scn" format version of this scene as well as all of the textures used by Vray 1.52 in rendering this scene, even the GI shade.
IF..... "IF"...... I am not mistaken, when one takes a TS7.51 scene and goes with it from Workspace to Modelside, and then utilizes the dropdown TS6.6 (or as they love to call it "legacy") menu system option of "Archive," one in fact saves that Workspace side scene as a modelside "scn" file - along with every texture utilized in the rendering of that scene - (AND - ALL the Vray SETTINGS inherent to the rendering of that scene as well WITHIN that "scn" file) together to that same "ts/archive/scene_name/" directory.
So I scooped them all up and put them in a zip, added the reference images from this reply, and ALSO.... JUST IN CASE.... added the actual "RsScn" file of the scene from my library stack as well.;)
Now... if all goes according to plan.... DON'T just open this zip... SAVE this zip locally and THEN extract it into a new directory somewhere in your trueSpace 7.51 path. I say that because if you play with these settings without a backup you may lose whatever setting DID make it all work!:p
If you play with this scene ONLY after you actually write down ALL the LE and Vray-related STACK settings in it pertaining to the light and Vray.... hopefully, hopefully... a comparison of those settings against your actual scene settings will bring you to your desired epiphany.:)
Otherwise.... at least I tried!:p
All the best Peter,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 13, 2007, 4:40am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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That's so kind of you dude thanks very much mate :)
I'm not at all daunted don't worry but I felt it would be good to get it out of my system and I confessed to Rachelle my good lady that I'd been like a bear with a sore head because TS was treating me wrong - real blues stuff <grin> Feeling much better now and only under pressure really because I'm working with a team of flight-sim (virtual) pilots, I just want to get the clip done now: I get so envious seeing all the juicy stuff in here that I could be doing but I'm grinding away at the clips I'm working on not letting myself get distracted by jacuzzis and other interesting stuff. It's a hard life lol :)
I've never had trouble getting something as simple as an Inflight to show. Well maybe once or twice :)
The project images are at- http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/
I'm the Merciful Ming in another life :)
Photobucket has over 300 billion images you know. Yes and 74 billion of them are mine :)
You'll see below the Inflight I'd already sorted out way back. So when it didn't appear working from the ever-reliable Modelspace after I scrolled back to TS7.5 and then when it resisted my attempts to get it working it knocked me back after the trouble I already was having with the black edge in Vray 1.52 (I can't use Vray 1.52 because of the black edge problem)
So close to the finishing straight I was and a con-rod snapped: and so did I :)
I'll go for a rebuild from first principles, I've got a template after all. And check everything as I go along. I'm building on stuff I created when I had even less of a clue than I have right now, no wonder it's going belly-up every five minutes :)
There's nothing like TrueSpace around I know this to be true. It's like swimming naked.
I'm back in there and battling dude :)
Really appreciated is your support mate thanks ever so much for your wise words and the scene!!
Peter
See I told you I didn't merely dream it worked once :) (from an earlier Vray build)
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/CandidateForShinyBumpyFloor5.jpg |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 7:36am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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LOL!!!
Excellent, I'm very glad to hear a solution presented itself for you on this. After playing with the dilemma myself I began to understand what a pain it can really be without having a clue myself how to do it!
As for the Black Edge of Legend... yes, this remains a very serious issue for all of us. I do appreciate you're having brought that whole affair to the attention of the Devs, and although it may be some time before a response develops there from them I have absolutely no doubt that they are now fully aware of it and addressing it thanks to the efforts of you and others to bring it to their attention here.
As for that Jaccuzzi...:D
I actually got a $4000 Jaccuzzi from my neighbor a few months ago for $200 (not a typo!) and plan to hook it up soon (special 220 volt affair for my house) so after I went to that last "Thursday Night Live" meeting with dozens of other familiar Avatars here, it was something I really could have used!
Now that I made a "virtual" one and put it here I have to get some help from our more knowledgeable LE Masters on how to make SteveBe's "WavePool" realtime displacement waves work with it too. Once that's done, and I reverse the normals on the water surface, we could all actually use it in truePlaces or on the Shared Space Server which hosts Thursday Night Live (as well as an identical version of "truePlaces."
That WOULD be fun I think, and it's hard to beat a Jaccuzzi when one is looking for a relaxing atmosphere to talk in, even if it is "virtual!" :D
Glad to hear you've found a solution, and I'm also seriously looking forward to the time when all your current projects are finished so that you are free to play with developing interactive scenes for truePlay, which as I'm certain you've noticed is gaining considerable attention here by many and will no doubt be a fun road for us all to walk together.
All the best,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 13, 2007, 8:54am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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the Black Edge of Legend... it may be some time before a response develops there from them I have absolutely no doubt that they are now fully aware of it
Same here dude, a few bumpy restarts we'll get there
I've rebuilt the scene and found a few anomalies with copies of objects overlying objects - when I started out I probably accidentally made copies of objects but didn't check that objects have no Doppelgangers - causing that texture surface friction :) with two objects trying to occupy the same space. Now so far all is going well with Inflights and Area lights working fine. Dreading glass lol but it'll be ok
I actually got a $4000 Jaccuzzi from my neighbor a few months ago for $200 (not a typo!) and plan to hook it up soon (special 220 volt affair for my house) so after I went to that last "Thursday Night Live" meeting with dozens of other familiar Avatars here, it was something I really could have used!
Nice one take care though that earth leakage circuit breakers are in there if you're in the open air. In the world of water and mains voltages I mean :) Hmm 220VAC that's European with an isolating transformer maybe. Anyway the word 'live' in this context is scary lol
Now that I made a "virtual" one and put it here I have to get some help from our more knowledgeable LE Masters on how to make SteveBe's "WavePool" realtime displacement waves work with it too. Once that's done, and I reverse the normals on the water surface, we could all actually use it in truePlaces or on the Shared Space Server which hosts Thursday Night Live (as well as an identical version of "truePlaces."
That WOULD be fun I think, and it's hard to beat a Jaccuzzi when one is looking for a relaxing atmosphere to talk in, even if it is "virtual!" :D
Especially if it's "virtual!" you mean. Fantastic :)
In my alternate world we fly WW2 planes but we're stuck in the cockpit mostly other than bailing - when our character jumps out of the plane in an animation
What we'd give to be able to walk into a Dispersal room (the scene I'm building) and walk around, have a cup of tea from the urn and sit down to get the briefing. Recce photos of the Ruhr. B/W film projector "Your target for tonight gentlemen is Berlin" :)
[virtual TrueSpace worlds] I'm certain you've noticed is gaining considerable attention here by many and will no doubt be a fun road for us all to walk together.
You bet dude, the world's our oyster :)
Ooh oysters and clamshells, rockpools. Don't get me started :)
Peter |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 1:07pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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I've rebuilt the scene and found a few anomalies with copies of objects overlying objects - when I started out I probably accidentally made copies of objects but didn't check that objects have no Doppelgangers - causing that texture surface friction :) with two objects trying to occupy the same space. Now so far all is going well with Inflights and Area lights working fine. Dreading glass lol but it'll be ok
Ah yes... the dreaded "coplanar surfaces." That's happened to me a few times as well and can definitely wreak havok with a program as perceptive as Vray. It wouldn't be so bad if most of my programs thew up a warning dialog about coplanar surfaces at the moment of saving or rendering, but alas, not one of them does. A good Feature Suggestion perhaps.
Nice one take care though that earth leakage circuit breakers are in there if you're in the open air. In the world of water and mains voltages I mean :) Hmm 220VAC that's European with an isolating transformer maybe. Anyway the word 'live' in this context is scary lol
Gotcha, and thanks for that tip. I'm not taking chances with that install at all, I'm definitely going to hire a Licensed Pro with outdoor Jaccuzzi experience for sure. The alternatives being... well... shocking.
In my alternate world we fly WW2 planes but we're stuck in the cockpit mostly other than bailing - when our character jumps out of the plane in an animation
What we'd give to be able to walk into a Dispersal room (the scene I'm building) and walk around, have a cup of tea from the urn and sit down to get the briefing. Recce photos of the Ruhr. B/W film projector "Your target for tonight gentlemen is Berlin" :)
In my alternate worlds I pretend to be young and handsome.:D
That does sound like fun. We can, soon, of course, build airplanes for shared space, although I do shudder at the thought of who will pilot them.
When time permits let's help your squadron build a pub, adjacent to the new Dispersal Room that is, of course.;)
You bet dude, the world's our oyster :)
Ooh oysters and clamshells, rockpools. Don't get me started :)
Peter
Ahhh yes oysters... pearly little devils they are... and we already know what the mere mention of snails arouses here...
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 14, 2007, 1:53am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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we already know what the mere mention of snails arouses here...
A group of people armed and dangerous and prepared to invade France at a moment's notice yes :)
coplanar surfaces
Ah very good thanks dude that's it exactly
let's help your squadron build a pub, adjacent to the new Dispersal Room
Ooh now you're talking!
Something with Dolphin in the pub name, pub signage: our squadron emblem and a WW1 plane. Flown in France. Paris. Follies. The Frisky Dolphin :)
As a matter of fact dude there's a new flight-sim in development called Knights of the Sky, a WW1 biplanes online game. And one of the developers asked me (us) to find information on the Dolphin biplane's cockpit - so they can construct the cockpit which would make the plane a flyable plane. Without the cockpit the plane cannot be flown by humans but instead is flown as an 'AI' plane (artificial intelligence, NPC)
That's one too many projects so it's been delegated. Is my story :)
But it shows how useful 3D work is becoming...
Peter |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 14, 2007, 3:53am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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let's help your squadron build a pub, adjacent to the new Dispersal Room
Ooh now you're talking!
Something with Dolphin in the pub name, pub signage: our squadron emblem and a WW1 plane. Flown in France. Paris. Follies. The Frisky Dolphin :)
As a matter of fact dude there's a new flight-sim in development called Knights of the Sky, a WW1 biplanes online game. And one of the developers asked me (us) to find information on the Dolphin biplane's cockpit - so they can construct the cockpit which would make the plane a flyable plane. Without the cockpit the plane cannot be flown by humans but instead is flown as an 'AI' plane (artificial intelligence, NPC)
That's one too many projects so it's been delegated. Is my story :)
But it shows how useful 3D work is becoming...
Peter
"The Frisky Dolphin" it shall be then Peter!
Besides, you probably wouldn't have liked my "randy dolphin" name idea anyway.:D
Alas, I fear 'tis time to bring this fine thread with it's dreadfull name to a close on such a note as this...
Until then I'll look forward to our next chance encounter in some equally unlikely thread, after all, there are still more snails on the loose!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 14, 2007, 5:03am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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"The Frisky Dolphin" it shall be
No it shan't I was just kicking things around. Deciding too early in a project to set something in concrete is a bad move :)
thread with it's dreadfull name
No not at all dude. This thread points the way on how to enlist a cooperative effort to boost morale and sort out problems on encountering TrueSpace's powerful but frisky :) minor headaches. What we call in UK a 'domestic tiff' with our lover-TS. We love it really who knows maybe especially because it drives us mad sometimes :)
No one looking for how to solve a problem without er, bitterness :) reads a thread headed-
Wow I'm raving about Workspace manipulation of objects, smooth as a baby's bum!"
-if you think about it. But they might find comfort in this one. Empathy see :)
Dude when the fat lady sings, I'll tell you.
Ok now. :)
And many thanks masked stranger whatever your name is!
Tonto |
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