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Roman Please release 7.61 before you go.
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Roman Please release 7.61 before you go. // Roundtable
Post by CdeB // May 20, 2009, 8:32am
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CdeB
Total Posts: 160
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Just voting for availabilty of 7.61 beta...
If MS is keeping the code it will not release tS open source punkt slut (period,fullstop etc), unfortunately...and probably not a beta either...they only release betas of operating systems -I now have the second beta of Vista, its called Vista SP1 ;-)
CdeB |
Post by TomG // May 20, 2009, 8:37am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Note that the site is not necessarily disappearing on Friday - the announcement is that is the earliest that some things will disappear, but others will last longer, perhaps quite a bit longer.
My email and official position disappears on Friday for sure. The website is unlikely to disappear on the same day - note the announcement states that for many things, no firm date has been fixed. Based on that, you do want to be sure to get a copy of anything you desperately need, *just in case* an unexpected worst case scenario happens. Better safe than sorry! However, it is not expected that the website will be going this Friday. Plan for the worst, hope for the best, is perhaps the spirit called for here :)
On another point, I notice some questions on redistributing things like the installer, or V-Ray - both tS7.6 and V-Ray remain the property of Microsoft, and you would need their written authorisation to give away or redistribute the installer for any Caligari product, and that would include V-Ray. Just so no-one lands themselves in hot water :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Steinie // May 20, 2009, 8:42am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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...but Tom and Norm will no longer be around Friday who keeps the show going?
No word from above about releasing Beta? |
Post by JimB // May 20, 2009, 8:48am
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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On another point, I notice some questions on redistributing things like the installer, or V-Ray - both tS7.6 and V-Ray remain the property of Microsoft, and you would need their written authorisation to give away or redistribute the installer for any Caligari product, and that would include V-Ray. Just so no-one lands themselves in hot water
It would be a nice gesture on the part of MS to make at least the current beta available to the community seeing that most of us actually paid for the software.
Its like the gameSpace stuff that many would find useful yet it will probably be discarded.
Jim |
Post by splinters // May 20, 2009, 9:07am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Not a new thing to get a beta; Proteam used to get access to them, and that was when tS was a paid product.
I take it my competition wins and credits are no good now? :p |
Post by frootee // May 20, 2009, 9:20am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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...but Tom and Norm will no longer be around Friday who keeps the show going?
No word from above about releasing Beta?
Tom and Norm will be around I'm sure. Just not, at MS.
They won't have an active MS email address.
They will have to re-register here on the forums, with a post count of Zero.
They'll be newbies :D |
Post by nowherebrain // May 20, 2009, 9:26am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Well, this is a shame...I saw it coming an actually got out a long time ago.....does not mean that this does not sting....
I honestly feel the same way I did when I was dumped for the first time...not a happy moment.
//on a side note
Tom the letter IS in the mail...;) |
Post by spyfrog // May 20, 2009, 12:05pm
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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Sorry, but I don't get the idea behind why you want the beta for TS 7.61?
Is it a lot better than TS 7.6? Is it close to being release ready?
If not, I don't see any use for it. TS seam to be dead. Having an eternal beta as last version rather than a buggy TS 7.6 release feels the same - sad.
My guess was that this would happend as soon as I heard that MS bought Caligari - I am sorry I was right about that.
My recommendation for us all is to switch to Blender. That is probably the thing that annoys MS the most if you want a little "revenge" on them as well as being the cheap solution. I would like to recommend the book "Blender for Dummies" which is rather good as a starting point. Also, Blender will have an UI overhaul in next version so when that comes is a good place to start using it. |
Post by wally // May 20, 2009, 12:15pm
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wally
Total Posts: 21
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Prodigy,
Ahh. I think I understand. I do trust in you.
Wally |
Post by splinters // May 20, 2009, 12:25pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I believe that a lot of work went into tS7.61 and for those of us who intend to use tS 7.6 for a bit longer, any fixes and improvements are very welcome indeed. |
Post by spyfrog // May 20, 2009, 12:43pm
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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I believe that a lot of work went into tS7.61 and for those of us who intend to use tS 7.6 for a bit longer, any fixes and improvements are very welcome indeed.
I am sure that it would be nice to have tS 7.61 but isn't that only like prolonging the pain? Isn't it better to switch as fast as possible? There seam to never be a new tS version even if tS 7.61 was released, so it is a dead end.
Of course, I understand that this has to be a big problem for someone like you that have a big investment in tS.
My biggest loss will be this great forum and all the great help you can get here but I haven't so much content to worry about - I will simply have to try to lobotomize myself and get to know Blender in my case... :rolleyes: |
Post by TomG // May 20, 2009, 12:55pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Depends on what you mean by a "dead end". After all, if you can produce everything you need to in tS, then that will still be true even if it never changes.
If you want to keep up with the jones's, or need / want more features, then indeed with tS being frozen you may want to just go ahead and move. That said, not everyone has $500 or $1000 or more to spend on a 3D application, and the options out there for moving may not appeal, so again there will be some who elect to stay with tS as their 3D product.
Most likely I will for instance, not in a position to purchase any of the rather expensive main name brands, and just not very keen on Blender. Maybe in some months once it has its interface overhaul I'll give it a look.
But for now tS will most likely meet my modeling and rendering needs quite happily, so I'm in no rush to start learning anything new :) As with most things in life, it is horses for courses, and it will be up to each individual to decide what is best for them.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by nowherebrain // May 20, 2009, 7:57pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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I think you should give blender a chance. I was a "hater" of blender for a long time...just like I hate "MAC" I still hate mac, and poser for that matter...sorry guys,.,,no offense meant...anyway Blender will be ready soon. I use 2.5 now. It is that stable and usable...anyway.... |
Post by W!ZARD // May 20, 2009, 8:26pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I don't understand the 'dead end' thing at all. I have tS 7.6 on my hard drive, I have a end user license that allows me to use it, it has problem areas as it is but it's still perfectly usable for a long time to come.
I for one won't be switching to Blender anytime soon, if at all. I'll continue using tS as my main modeling app until some eventual future computer hardware upgrade means I can't run it anymore.
Another possibility that occurs to me; when the economy recovers from the recession, M$ will be looking to expand again - perhaps they'll blow the dust off the mothballed tS code and release a bigger better reincarnated variation.
This may be hopelessly optimistic (if there can be such a thing as optimism with hope!) but it's still a cheery thought.
Nothing is destroyed, just remade in a different form.
wzrd |
Post by v3rd3 // May 20, 2009, 10:56pm
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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I think the point regarding "an end" is that TS will forever remain a niche tool for the existing user base. I think some had hoped to see TS grow to rival or successfully partner with the big names in the industry. I know I saw that potential and hoped that TS would eventually play a large role in my ambitions to start a CG studio.
I am a stickler for keeping licensing issues on the high ground. As such, I could not consider TS as I would not be able to legitimately obtain licenses for any future team. My ambitions in this area then are .... over.
I am planning to work on projects with teams formed from this community, so I do not ever think I will be sitting still.
I can hope that MSCali will release the source to the community, or grant us the authority to distribute licenses ... something to inspire the developers to continue pursuing growth in the product. In this case, there will be an opportunity for future growth and perhaps this community will take the product to a larger audience. |
Post by RichLevy // May 20, 2009, 11:59pm
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RichLevy
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The end thing could be good, or it can be bad. If Caligari is allowed to post the 7.61 update many of the niggles in the present program will be fixed (not all but many). To many that will be enough. If the user base picks up the ball and runs with it, developing new tools and develops an active userbase, the program could take on a new life...
The thing I see that is going to hurt the program, it has no real home anymore, no place for the user's to gather and be a community. I see some talk of a site but it is a closed place, you have to ask to be a part of the community, you have to know where to find the site... They are creating a secret society over there. If TS is to survive you have to make the program and community open to anyone to partake and enjoy... If they do it the way they have it set up TS will slowly and panifully die...
My 2 cents.
Rich |
Post by frootee // May 21, 2009, 12:15am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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no not private society.
Augusto is creating another website; forgot link, in hurry;
someone else have link? |
Post by transient // May 21, 2009, 12:23am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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There's a new public forum under development, last I heard. The "secret society" (that has been advertised multiple times on this forum, as recently as yesterday (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=8396)) is continuing as well, but may be moved to a bigger server. Anyone can be there, just e-mail Prodigy.
That's the latest news I know of.
This announcement has taken everyone by surprise, so really there isn't time to do much about it, and no doubt some users will fall off the vine. That said, the core of this forum have already been to Prodigy's evil lair already, and really that's mostly everyone who posts here anyway.
There's no stopping anyone else setting up their own ts forum, if they want.
All that said, truespace is dead as a dodo as of now, and only indiana jones types and hard-core fans (like me) will stay interested over the long term. The same thing happened to Canvas.
[edit] oops, simultaneous postage |
Post by rrf // May 21, 2009, 1:40am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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Please add me to that list too...
rf |
Post by splinters // May 21, 2009, 2:38am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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... They are creating a secret society over there. If TS is to survive you have to make the program and community open to anyone to partake and enjoy... If they do it the way they have it set up TS will slowly and panifully die...
My 2 cents.
Rich
Not a secret society, just one with good intentions and I, for one, will be happy not to have any trolls about which is the only reason I see for requesting membership...:) |
Post by vnomad // May 21, 2009, 3:20am
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vnomad
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I know this may sound absurd...
But I find that trueSpace 3.2 remains a super introductory tool to would-be modellers.
Eyes sparkle, not glaze :D
May I share my copy of the trueClassic at this point, pretty pretty please? |
Post by splinters // May 21, 2009, 3:27am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I believe 3.2 is freeware as a lot of sites used to host it. Why can't tS7.6 be distributed? If it is free now then surely you could just say everyone in the world tried downloading it at once and caused congestion which took a few months to clear in downloads...:p
Seriously though, who won't give a copy to their friends just because it still technically belongs to MS??
I thought once it was out there for free it became freeware as you have no control (i.e no serial or key code) to limit who uses it. |
Post by nowherebrain // May 21, 2009, 3:55am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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if the number of downloads serves as a case in point to MS to keep it, is one good reason.....I just don't think that will happen....
FREE 7.61! |
Post by TomG // May 21, 2009, 4:26am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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An item being released for free download does not place it in the public domain, or remove the ownership rights, or the IP. It's like just because your image is on a website, does that mean anyone can take that image (as it is shared with the public) and do what they want with it?
Of course not. Placing it there for people to download to view does not give redistribution rights.
The same is true with tS7.6. It is not free to redistribute, never has been either, an agreement with Microsoft / Caligari was required, eg for magazines to place it on a cover CD, or someone to distribute it as part of a project.
This remains the case. Anyone redistributing tS7.6 would be in infringement of rights and so open to prosecution. Just so no-one lands in hot water.
Also, ALL previous Caligari products were removed from availability on the release of tS7.6, and this included tS3.2. It was available for free download, but that was revoked as soon as tS7.6 came out - no site hosts it now and all sites were told to remove it on the release of tS7.6. If any sites are still hosting it, they are in breach of rights).
Again, while tS3.2 was available from sites, those sites had agreements in place, eg CNET etc. tS3.2 was not allowed to be redistributed, so is still not allowed to be redistributed even today. Again, giving something away for free does not put it in the public domain, nor are you giving away rights to redistribution.
Hope this helps clarify things. Would hate for anyone to get themselves into trouble.
Tom |
Post by KeithC // May 21, 2009, 4:45am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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So basically; once M$ closes up shop here...they will effectively kill TrueSpace for future users. Like they almost did with XSI.... |
Post by TomG // May 21, 2009, 4:53am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Well, can't say what will happen in the future. I only want to make clear (so that no-one finds themselves in any troube) that right now tS is not redistributable.
Whether that changes, who can say? Whether tS sees more development once more, again, can't say. Speculation is futile (more so than resistance ;) ), so I can only just focus on how things are today.
Other things that are unclear are how long the website will be around for, how long the download will be around for etc, it could be quite a while even if there is no new development. Or it might not be. Impossible to say, which is why the announcement doesn't give a date, and just advises everyone to ensure they have backups at their earliest opportunity "just in case". But of course the worst case scenario may not be the one that happens.
You'll have to keep watching for further news and developments, to see what actually happens and when!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Steinie // May 21, 2009, 4:56am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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If I visit and see or hear the word pfffftttttttttt, will that mean anything?:D
p.s. in honer of Don Martin... |
Post by TomG // May 21, 2009, 5:08am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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A need for Gas-X? :)
Tom |
Post by marcel // May 21, 2009, 5:22am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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who push the button to close the forum? :D |
Post by Vizu // May 21, 2009, 5:54am
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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Tja.
Da stehen wir, die alten eingefleischten Truespacebenutzer nun und machen dicke Backen.
Lobeshymnen von Roman. Immer und immer wieder wie toll Truespace ist und das daß team fleissig arbeitet und immerwieder das geschwafel von wegen es wird besser und toller und bunter.
Dann kommt Microsoft und winkt mit ein paar geldscheinen und Truespace gehört dem megakonzern der sowiso nur seine eigenen Interessen verfolgt.
Roman hat Kohle gemacht und wir sind raus ...
Schöner Abgang Roman. Gib nicht alles auf einmal aus. |
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