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truePlay1.2 and truePlaces
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
truePlay1.2 and truePlaces // truePlay
Post by trueBlue // Dec 1, 2006, 8:25pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Just finished visiting truePlaces with the new truePlayer1.2
Wow! This is awesome.
Thanks Caligari and all of the developers.
Emmanuel: Outstanding scenes! |
Post by 3dpdk // Dec 1, 2006, 10:58pm
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Sorry trueBlue, we posted at the same time. |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 2, 2006, 8:53am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Some one in charge over there?
It's a big empty space with a couple cameras and lights.
Somebody jiggle the wires or something because this can't be right. |
Post by prodigy // Dec 2, 2006, 9:25am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Spacecadet... how are you..
I found what are you doing to see a complet gray scene and see the camera..
You run trueplay.. press over "enter Shared Spaces" and login.. then you press Forum Server...thats not the way to enter to the TruePlaces... you must click over the links and wait few minutes depends your internet conection...
http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts7/Brochure/truePlaces.asp
Click on "Visit The xxxxxxxx"
Best Regards.. and tellme if that helps you... |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 2, 2006, 10:51am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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No idea what you mean.
I've run out of time to monkey around with this.
Good luck to anyone else who was stuck in limbo with me. |
Post by Steinie // Dec 2, 2006, 11:05am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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First impressions.....for me No impressions....I know user error....
and Caligari was all tucked in their beds with visions of Sugar Plums...... |
Post by prodigy // Dec 2, 2006, 11:49am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Im not clear??? :confused:
Whatever... |
Post by splinters // Dec 2, 2006, 12:09pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Not sure what the problem is here guys. I am running tP on my crappy laptop and I just entered the portal and went around a few places. Chugged like hell in the labs but no real problem.
Bear in mind also that this is a free program and may have a few little bugs to iron out...the kind that not every beta tester can encounter. I certainly had no problem logging on or exploring so I could not report anything back there...:o |
Post by Steinie // Dec 2, 2006, 12:38pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I just hope they don't release TS7.5 on a Friday. Spacekdet is having problems after he connects so his application is at least running. Mine won't even start. So the free application messed up the one I had that did work. It's also built into 7.11 and last time I looked it cost me a lot of money. My time trying to fix this is also not free.
Splinters are you saying that you can connect with ts 7.11? |
Post by splinters // Dec 2, 2006, 12:48pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Am I missing something here? trueplay 1.2 and trueplace is the thread title. Why do you bring up 7.11? |
Post by Steinie // Dec 2, 2006, 12:54pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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The old trueplay could be connected using 7.11... NO?
Does that function still work in 7.11? NO Because they changed the network. So my trueplay no longer works, the new trueplay2 (truePlace) doesn't work and I lost it's function in 7.11. (try the single eyed icon in 7.11)
Am I missing something? |
Post by splinters // Dec 3, 2006, 12:17am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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The old trueplay could be connected using 7.11... NO?
Not really, truePlay is a standalone viewer and tS7.11 is a separate program for creating content (for truePlay). What you used to do with tS7.11 was connect to 'shared space' as it was via a dedicated server. Beta testers did the same but with a different server.
That has been a while and, as far as I know, a new server has been setup for truePlay 2.
Steinie, I am not arguing that you do not have problems but it might be helped if we know exactly where the problem is. You never could connect to truePlay through ts7.11 because they are two different programs; like saying you use excel to open up word. |
Post by prodigy // Dec 3, 2006, 2:42am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Splinter.. but we can conect Truespace 7 with trueplaces for work with other people?? or its only a chat room??
Now i try to conect the Ts7 colavoration and i cant... its like someone changes the server.. or i dont know..
Best Regards.. |
Post by splinters // Dec 3, 2006, 3:02am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I think that is pretty much it prodigy, trueplaces can be visited from truePlay or tS but I guess the server address is the problem here...:( |
Post by Steinie // Dec 3, 2006, 4:07am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I'm not mad at you Splinters, never was. Your right this is a free program. The biggest mistake they made was picking Friday and not post a notice about min. req.
Not clear what you mean about 7.11 not connecting to truePlay....I'll reword it by saying 7.11 could connect to a network shared by truePlay users and now it cannot. |
Post by splinters // Dec 3, 2006, 4:21am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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No problems Steinie and I can sympathise with you but what I was saying is trueplay is a program. truePlace is a 'shared space' like you went to in 7.11. Therefore you have never connected to trueplay from 7.11. It is like saying I connected to windows explorer from my PC, I didn't; I used explorer to connect to the net....no that is no clearer is it...:o |
Post by prodigy // Dec 3, 2006, 4:48am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Tomorrow whas a better day.... Enjoy the sun... and go with your chick to the park... :D |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 3, 2006, 4:50am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Just to add to the confusion: |
Post by trueBlue // Dec 3, 2006, 4:52am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Do not quote me here but this is what I think is true. There are two servers for Shared Space.
tsportal.caligari.com Is what trueSpace7.11 is set to by default.
tpportal.caligari.com Is what truePlayer is set to by default. It now only supports truePlayer1.2
@Spacekdet: You can login to Shared Space either way. The default scene that comes with truePlayer1.2 will go to the Forum. The links on the Caligari/Places will log you into which ever link you select, Forum, Lab, or Roundtable.
@Stienie: I wish that I could help you get truePlayer to work. The only thing I can think of by what you have said sofar is to update Windows, DX, Net Framework, and your Video card's driver. I had to install truePlay1.2 over and over several times and at this point it seems to be working. Mind you I did not uninstall before installing. I did however at first uninstall truePlayer before installing truePlayer1.2
Update: I just discovered that you can not have trueSpace7.11 open when you try and connect to Shared Space with truePlayer1.2
You will have to reinstall truePlayer1.2 again. |
Post by Steinie // Dec 3, 2006, 7:37am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Ok I figured it out! This worked in my case so Caligari has the final word.
I have a Radeon 9600 pro ATI board.
Uninstall truePlay
First you MUST have .NET Framework ver. 2.0 installed. (22.4mb install)
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856EACB-4362-4B0D-8EDD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en
If your not sure why your truePlay install failed look in your C:\Windows\DirectX.log for errors. Mine failed to find mscoree.dll located in your Windows\system directory. That file is used in .NET Framework
Then update video drivers to latest version. (ATI's Radeon latest deployment depend on .NET Framework)
Having all of the above done first:
Install truePlay2 and allow it to update DX files. If it doesn't take awhile to download files then the above probably wasn't done. I still received one error vs. ten before during install.
Works like a champ now. TS 7.11 will have to wait for a Caligari fix.
Many thanks to Stoker, trueBlue, Stan, Spacekdet and Splinters for their help and guidance. Caligari can get out of bed now... |
Post by prodigy // Dec 3, 2006, 3:16pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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"First you MUST have .NET Framework ver. 2.0 installed. (22.4mb install)"
I dont have .Net installed and i install Trueplay1.2 without any problem... i began to think its a driver problem...
Question.. any people with NVIDIA Chipset with the same problem??? |
Post by frootee // Dec 3, 2006, 4:55pm
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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prodigy, it looks like you have an Nvidia video card. The problem occurs with ATI Radeon cards, which rely on the Microsoft .NET framework. I do not believe this same issue exists with Nvidia cards. |
Post by JPSofCA // Dec 3, 2006, 9:01pm
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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"First you MUST have .NET Framework ver. 2.0 installed. (22.4mb install)"
I dont have .Net installed and i install Trueplay1.2 without any problem... i began to think its a driver problem...
Question.. any people with NVIDIA Chipset with the same problem???
You won't have a problem installing anything that relies on the .net framework (unless the installer is written to target the .net CLR as well) until the first time you go to execute it - the installer simply unpacks things like someone moving into a new place needing to find a spot to put everything. When you run a .net .exe (assembly) for the first time, it is interpreted into a platform-specific instruction set, the resulting assembly is then registered into the Global Assembly Cache (provided by your .net aware computer). Just about every [modern] program you use will rely on mscoree.dll, as it contains the managed versions of the same core Windows functionality that the unmanaged "classic" Win32 mscorlib.dll contains.
.net programs are interpreted like HTML; however, an HTML document is interpreted every time it is accessed [slow], whereas a .net program is interpreted only the first time it is encountered on a client machine [slow], then the interpreted platform-specific instruction set [fast] is what executes happily from that point forward from a more modern, managed environment free of memory leaks and other bothersome problems that sometimes plagued software before .net.
Not to say you'll never encounter a memory leak again - unmanaged "recycled" (for those who refuse to let their babies go) Win32 code integrates easily into .net. But if truePlace relies on mscoree.dll, it's a sign of a step in the right direction...you might just see your LinSpace after all...maybe even MacSpace too! |
Post by Emmanuel // Dec 3, 2006, 10:18pm
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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Just to add to the confusion:
Spacekdet, it seems that your graphic card has a problem with transparencies : on your screenshot, you should have names on the black planes, and see a sky background through the triangle windows.
What chip is on your graphic card ? |
Post by Steinie // Dec 4, 2006, 2:38am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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"the resulting assembly is then registered into the Global Assembly Cache (provided by your .net aware computer)"
Prodigy, did you understand that? :) Don't worry I speak English and I trembled....
JPSofCA, where were you when I needed help, you could have saved me a lot of headaches....I'm glad someone here understands this stuff.:) |
Post by TomG // Dec 4, 2006, 2:46am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Interesting on the .net framework issue, I'll forward that along to developers and see what the word is.
For now I am using the first bug thread as the main location for feedback from us on install and run issues:
Just makes it easier to have one place to post. If there turn out to be several issues, we'll start up some new threads to address each.
On the connection issue, this is from my reply on another thread:
"
Not being able to connect with tS is normal, if you have changed you tS to access the truePlay server rather than the trueSpace server (eg for coming in to Thursday chats using trueSpace rather than truePlay).
Please see here for more explanation, and solution to that (note you cannot make trueSpace connect to truePlace):
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespac...0016#post20016
"
The black bars that spacekdet is seeing should not be there, and could well be graphic card dependent (relatively new, fully DX9.0c compliant cards are required). Let us know the card you have spacekdet and we'll see if that was the cause there.
HTH!
Tom
EDIT: PS, no tS7 won't be launched on a Friday! We monitored things on the server Fri and Sat, not sure beyond that. Some server issues arose, always the case with such apps that you have to have the server live and "under stress" to see what happens. We'll continue working on server-side issues, and be reporting in that other thread on install issues.
tS7.5 will not have the same server-side issues of course, but even then, we still won't be doing a Friday release :) |
Post by prodigy // Dec 4, 2006, 5:39am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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"the resulting assembly is then registered into the Global Assembly Cache (provided by your .net aware computer)"
Prodigy, did you understand that? :) Don't worry I speak English and I trembled....
JPSofCA, where were you when I needed help, you could have saved me a lot of headaches....I'm glad someone here understands this stuff.:)
Steini.. I understan 100%... :confused: :confused: :confused:
jejejeje
Only a joke...
Best Regards.. |
Post by Alien // Dec 4, 2006, 7:34am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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.net programs are interpreted like HTML; however, an HTML document is interpreted every time it is accessed [slow], whereas a .net program is interpreted only the first time it is encountered on a client machine [slow], then the interpreted platform-specific instruction set [fast] is what executes happily from that point forward from a more modern, managed environment free of memory leaks and other bothersome problems that sometimes plagued software before .net.
Fast? Compared to the first run, as you mentioned - possibly, but IME .Net progs tend to run noticeably slower than something made with [for example] Delphi, C, etc.
The best example I can think of is the ATI Control Centre. The old 1, before they switched to .Net, started nice & quick, whereas the .Net versions are way slower. .Net might make things easier for programmers, but on the other hand it also helps the PC hardware industry... by making people want faster machines. :( |
Post by sharamun // Dec 5, 2006, 7:33am
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sharamun
Total Posts: 8
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I tried the truePlaces forums over the weekend as I thought it is a good idea for content developers to share their ideas and material.
Installation of truePlay was rather uneventful (although if I remember correctly, it complained that it couldn't find ALT80.DLL, I am using an ATI X800XT Video Card), but I must say the initial main screen looks really gaudy and also doesn't allow you to enter a URL which it should.
My first experience connecting in to The Forum was not a good one, everything was gone (floor, stadium, ground, travel bar, etc.) except for the surrounding wall and the stadium ceiling struts, so unfortunately it was totally botched. So I had to exit out of truePlay completely and go back to the online brochure to try connecting in to The Labs. It looked to me like it was unfinished and released too early.
I was able to connect in to The Labs and Roundtable and actually had some enjoyable discussions with a few people there. I will say that probably the best thing about the experience was the network stability as I did not experience any connectivity issues or connection dropping.
There are some things that definitely need work, as it seems it is more like a beta version than a fully developed one. Here are some things I believe should be addressed in order to make truePlaces useful:
1. the chat window needs a function to set the font size on it. As I was participating in text mode and I view truePlaces on my 32" HDTV, the font is too small to read.
2. there is no way to navigate vertically without using the widget in non-FP Navigate mode, using the widget to navigate has to go
3. in The Labs, the proximity sound around the carousel turns on and off based on where you are, it should fade in or out instead
4. also in The Labs, the images on the walls shouldn't be low-res images, if this is a performance issue this should be solved rather than having low-res images as a bandaid, this is something I really never expected from Caligari since it has such a sophisticated 3D modelling product suite!
5. another thing in The Labs was that the double doors for Lab 2 was able to be moved and scaled by one of the other users and it was persisted in the scene. In general you shouldn't be able to select on an object, and have it move and snap back (even though it being a local behavior) or even worse have it persisted like that
6. there is no sense of self in truePlaces. Making it always first person without being able to view your avatar can make navigation more difficult and doesn't provide a more personal connection with your avatar than if a third person view is possible. For example, having the ability to create a camera which is tied to a location relative to your avatar would solve this problem
7. sense of gravity is not consistent, for instance in The Roundtable, you can navigate to the space before the podium but you are suspended in mid air instead of falling to the bottom, also since there is no concept of sitting or standing, the chairs are incongruous and should probably be replaced with something that makes more sense
8. there is nothing to interact with in any of the scenes
9. there is no way to add objects (with respective behaviors) in any of the scenes
10. there is no way to create and/or choose your own avatar
11. according to the truePlay/trueSpaces doc. the content downloading to the truePlay client is only supposed to happen the first time you visit a scene, I found that when I switched between scenes (e.g. The Labs, Roundtable), it downloaded the entire content every time
I hope these are taken as suggestions and not as direct criticism. I understand it is difficult to build a system which can support this level of interaction and persistence, so kudos to you for getting this far.
I would like know what the platform is that is used for the server side. I couldn't find any information on this anywhere. Any/all details on this including language, scripting, rendering/modelling definition, communications/network infrastructure, hardware platforms and the like are most welcome.
Please keep us posted on developments with truePlaces. It is an interesting idea and can be very rewarding for users to share their ideas and material, as long as users are able to build and interact with the scenes. Otherwise it will remain just an interesting novelty for about 15 minutes. |
Post by TomG // Dec 5, 2006, 9:10am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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everything was gone (floor, stadium, ground, travel bar, etc.) except for the surrounding wall and the stadium ceiling struts, so unfortunately it was totally botched. So I had to exit out of truePlay completely and go back to the online brochure to try connecting in to The Labs. It looked to me like it was unfinished and released too early.
>> The server has occasional hiccups where it loses parts of the scene. Issue has been identified and is being worked on. Issue did not emerge in beta testing, only one live and running for days with the higher demands of more users.
1. the chat window needs a function to set the font size on it. As I was participating in text mode and I view truePlaces on my 32" HDTV, the font is too small to read.
>> Sounds useful, we have some other improvements in store for that window too.
2. there is no way to navigate vertically without using the widget in non-FP Navigate mode, using the widget to navigate has to go
>> At the moment we like the option of widget, or FPN. We'll see how it goes over time though.
3. in The Labs, the proximity sound around the carousel turns on and off based on where you are, it should fade in or out instead
>> Probably will happen that way one day as part of ongoing improvements to embedded sound in the spaces.
4. also in The Labs, the images on the walls shouldn't be low-res images, if this is a performance issue this should be solved rather than having low-res images as a bandaid, this is something I really never expected from Caligari since it has such a sophisticated 3D modelling product suite!
>> Hmm, we'll see. Thing about making them high res is people will be able to read them, then they will have to mean something :) The site is created to be generous to as many graphics card set ups as possible, so performance is of course an issue - extremely high quality textures are possible, but at a price for some users, and we want to try and keep things accessible for all. So we'll see on that one.
5. another thing in The Labs was that the double doors for Lab 2 was able to be moved and scaled by one of the other users and it was persisted in the scene. In general you shouldn't be able to select on an object, and have it move and snap back (even though it being a local behavior) or even worse have it persisted like that
>> This is a bug which is being worked on. The objects are not moveable, but the server has a hiccup now and then and allows things to become moveable by mistake.
6. there is no sense of self in truePlaces. Making it always first person without being able to view your avatar can make navigation more difficult and doesn't provide a more personal connection with your avatar than if a third person view is possible. For example, having the ability to create a camera which is tied to a location relative to your avatar would solve this problem
>> May happen in future, though right now since we only have simple avatars it's not too much of a problem, you aren't missing out on much ;) Of course avatars will change eventually, and then this would make more sense. Should be very easy to do I believe.
7. sense of gravity is not consistent, for instance in The Roundtable, you can navigate to the space before the podium but you are suspended in mid air instead of falling to the bottom, also since there is no concept of sitting or standing, the chairs are incongruous and should probably be replaced with something that makes more sense
>> Gravity varies per space, this is deliberate. Low grav in Forum allows high jumping for unrealistic fun; the Labs have a more realistic gravity. Also the Roundtable deliberately doesn't let you fall down there, as if you did you would need to break out of FPN to get back up. Think of it as a virtual guard rail to prevent accidents :)
>> Sitting or standing is not an option with these avatars, but avatars will be improving over time. The scenes are created with the future in mind.
8. there is nothing to interact with in any of the scenes
>> That will be changing as we go - as noted, content will be released on an on-going basis, from new scenes, to new objects and activities.
9. there is no way to add objects (with respective behaviors) in any of the scenes
>> Deliberate - these are preset spaces that users cannot affect or change. Otherwise chaos would ensue, and they would be open to "attack" and "destruction". There will be other spaces designed for creation and collaboration, but right now it's like visiting these forums - you can chat to everyone else, but you can't go making a new board etc on the forums, the environment you are in is locked and protected. For truePlace, that will continue.
10. there is no way to create and/or choose your own avatar
>> As noted on the web page, avatars are basic and temporary, more advanced avatars are planned for in future.
11. according to the truePlay/trueSpaces doc. the content downloading to the truePlay client is only supposed to happen the first time you visit a scene, I found that when I switched between scenes (e.g. The Labs, Roundtable), it downloaded the entire content every time
>> Shouldn't download the entire content, that's unusual. It does download some - eg the revolving doors. Their location in space has always changed, so they always download. The content is downloaded on a per object basis, so those that are unchanged don't download.
>> Given server hiccups it is possible the entire scene had changed as it may have been restarted, so you could simply be seeing the result of that.
I would like know what the platform is that is used for the server side. I couldn't find any information on this anywhere. Any/all details on this including language, scripting, rendering/modelling definition, communications/network infrastructure, hardware platforms and the like are most welcome.
>> It's trueServe (http://www.caligari.com/Products/trueSpace/tServe/tServe_intro.asp). The modeling is done in tS7, as is the scripting for behaviors (using the languages supported by tS7, ie VB Script and J Script, plus using the node buidling approach so sometimes you dont need to write scripts at all, just link together objects to achieve your desired result). The rendering is done by the real-time renderer in tS7 / truePlay. Communications network and infrastructure is the one in-built to tS7 for message passing objects, that allows real-time collaboration in the same space (simplified here so there is no modeling collaboration, just real-time presence). Hardware platforms are standard Windows PCs - fairly powerful ones of course to keep up with demand, but still nothing you couldn't buy yourself.
>> So basically, it is all built using tS7 technology. You could host your own truePlace (or whatever world you want to build, you'd have total control) with a regular PC, trueServe license, and tS7 to create the world.
Please keep us posted on developments with truePlaces. It is an interesting idea and can be very rewarding for users to share their ideas and material, as long as users are able to build and interact with the scenes. Otherwise it will remain just an interesting novelty for about 15 minutes.
>> Specific places will exist for collaboration, separate for ones from communication. Objects will be created that allow interaction though, such as projector screens that display video or images that can be user controlled, and the like. So it will be like using a blog, you can include graphics or sound, but you can't actually re-write the HTML of the blog page itself - same thing here, there will be ways to interact and change the environment, but you won't be able to rebuild it from scratch. Other specific places will exist for that (but then those will not be truePlace, they won't be there as meeting places open to the public).
>> HTH!
Tom
>> EDIT : PS if you did host your own server as above, you could send out invites in hyperlink form just as we have on our web page - with your server's domain name (or ip address) embedded in the hyperlink in place of ours, people would be taken to log in to your server, direct to a specific room, just as we have happening for our server at the moment. This would make it very easy for people to find your server, no need for reconfiguring the truePlay program to point elsewhere etc, they could just jump from a web page, email or word doc onto your server. Just to complete the picture of how we see other servers working :) |
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