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Oops. Forgot about the rules.
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Oops. Forgot about the rules. // Rants and Raves
Post by Naes3d // Mar 16, 2006, 4:00pm
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Naes3d
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Paraphrasing:
I am concerned and have reason to need help reaffirming my belief in tS7.
Any help would be appreciated.
Words of encouragement and stuff like that. The grass is starting to look greener. Need some feedback. |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 16, 2006, 5:31pm
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Somebody to come in and scream 'Flavoor Flaaaav!' at least? |
Post by frank // Mar 16, 2006, 5:38pm
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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The grass is starting to look greener. Need some feedback.
Hi Naes3D!
I don't think there's anything wrong with expanding your toolset. You can still use trueSpace along with another app that may specialize in a different area. I'm quite sure many folks here have more than one 3D app. At the moment I only have trueSpace and the free Wings3D, but I know some folks that use Cinema 4D, Silo, Hexagon, etc. in conjunction with trueSpace.
I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to consider moving to a new app altogether if you don't want. |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 16, 2006, 5:51pm
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Good point, Frank. One that I have made on more than one occasion in the old forum. I am just tired of the not knowing and the uncertainty. It just seems like some of the other offerings are speaking directly to the things people are asking from tS.
Sometimes I wanna tear my hair out. |
Post by frank // Mar 16, 2006, 5:56pm
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Sometimes I wanna tear my hair out.
Hair has been requested and I think we will see it in time.
Oh - you mean your own hair...literally. NOOOO!!!!! DON'T DO IT, MAN!!!!
:) |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 16, 2006, 5:58pm
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It has been requested and I think we will see it in time.
Oh - you mean your own hair...literally. NOOOO!!!!! DON'T DO IT, MAN!!!!
:)
Good thing you said something. I had a death grip on a clump. |
Post by frank // Mar 16, 2006, 6:02pm
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frank
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Good thing you said something. I had a death grip on a clump.
That's what I'm here for, chiefy.
:) |
Post by daybe // Mar 16, 2006, 6:29pm
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daybe
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I Can't really tell you what to do, It all boils down to what your needs are. I have used various 3d packages in the past, not very well I might add.;) to get the job done. If TS works for you great, if not you may have to make some changes. All programs have their strengths and weaknesses, I would suggest download the demo and see if it suits you.
I myself am comfortable with TS and enjoy using it and with the recent addition of Vray and HDRI, my output has improved greatly. The programs you mentioned earlier, look good however. Could be a great additions to TS. |
Post by splinters // Mar 16, 2006, 10:29pm
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splinters
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Hexagon 2 looks equally tempting to me, especially at that price but that does not mean I would stop using TS. Two reasons for this;
1. I have years worth of stuff made in TS that I do not want to redo/transfer etc.
2. Hexagon (as far as I am aware) has no render engine while TS has 3 (I have Vray also). You would still need to get a renderer.
That's excluding any loyalty to Caligari or any contracts to work for them..;)
Bottom line, if it helped to get the models I wanted, I would use it but I would not eschew TS for it. If money is limited then I could see why £139 would be tempting for Hex 1 and free upgrade to 2.....:confused: |
Post by Garion // Mar 17, 2006, 3:30am
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Garion
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I have given up on TS 7 atm and have gone back to TS6.6 to finish off my current work, for reasons that are covered in another thread.
I use TS 6.6 mainly for quick game modelling to rustle up a prototype. For biiiiiig modelling jobs its XSI Foundation with a side course of Wings 3D. Oh and I just bought Silo for the bairns so that they can have a wee try at 3D.
I do a lot of rendering in Vue 5 Infinite, so most of my work is output from that atm, but it really depends on what yoo are trying to achieve.
Basically download ALL the demo's, or get them from a mag CD and try em out. Find the one that works well for yoo, fits yer workflow and pipeline.
Over the years I found that not one app can or will be suitible for everything and combination of apps is usualy the way to go.
Just wondering why its taboo to mention the good/bad points of other apps on the forums as its good to see the different aproaches and styles used to perform similar tasks. Don't mean to offend anyone, just curious, as I use use TS66 as pasrt of my pipeline along with some of these other apps.
Cheers
Garion |
Post by Steinie // Mar 17, 2006, 6:33am
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Garion,
I think the answer is a math equation:
TS + Other App = OK
TS - Other App =OK
Other App > TS = 0
Other App+ Details - TS = Boot
Other App = Boot |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 17, 2006, 7:35am
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My problem is that I am having a hard time determining whether I need tS in my pipeline or if I am simply forcing it into my pipeline because I am too stubborn to give it up.
I do use Carrara in my pipeline and it's current version does outshine my version of tS.
I understand that I need to demo software. That is actually another of my issues. I have demoed every program that I am interested in using except for trueSpace.
Right now tS is occupying a peripheral app slot for it modelling capabilities. It's not the best modeller anymore. It's exceptionally good, but no longer the best. If tS7 is everything it says it is, it could move from periphery to main app, but as time goes on, I am seeing it will probably be impossible to tell if it is the best app for me because nobody is demonstrating any of the features I am most interested in seeing. |
Post by Garion // Mar 17, 2006, 7:52am
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Garion
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A bit like East Lothian District Council then : close yer eyes and they may go away :)
But burying yer head in the sand is really a bad thing to do and booting people who compare applications and point out the good things TS can do and also highlight the parts that need improving is problably why TS7 is the mess that it is.
My opinion only take it or leave it, I still use TS6.6 and TS 7 waitng in thw wings :)
Still I am hopeful for the future
Cheers
Garion |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 17, 2006, 8:14am
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In response to freaky42 question in another thread:
If you don't already have one you might want a bitmap editor. Most people will tell you Photoshop and you won't lose anything for having it, but I use PhotoPaint and don't feel I have lost anything with it. A program like After Effects will be good if you plan on doing any compositing or special effects that might be better realized with it. I don't really do that kind of film or FX work but I keep telling myself I could make my copy of Media Studio Pro work if I need to.
I know that tS7 supports displacement mapping now, so apps like Zbrush2, Silo2 and Hexagon 2 will prove useful. Silo 2 isn't yet available. Programs like BodyPaint and DeepPaint do UV creation and texture painting but don't do displacement if I am not mistaken.
Wings3D is supposed to have UV tools but I don't know what they are. I think it's a UV unfold feature but since it is free you can check it out yourself.
You mentioned wanting to make your models camera ready so it is useful to know that Bryce, Vue and Carrara (Pro) import .cob from tS.
If you have any specific questions, I am sure people here will answer them for you. |
Post by splinters // Mar 17, 2006, 8:17am
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Gotta disagree about TS7 being a mess..I can no longer use TS6.6 as I miss the new features in TS7 and, to be honest (and biased), TS7 is much nicer to stare at for hours on end. HDRI is a staple of my work and I am getting into Vray a lot but then again a few points apply to me that don't apply to everyone;
1. I have not had to buy a current version of TS so I do not have to weigh up what to spend my money on.
2. TS7 is the ultimate customised interface-while you guys can set up the toolbars and layout to suit, my UI looks like it was made specifically just for me and my tastes (check the about box if you don't know what I mean)
3. I beta test so I use TS7 as part of a testing process when I might use another 3D app for a job-you sort of enjoy finding problems in a 'weird' kind of way - especially when they get solved as a result.
So basically I am trying to advise objectively but I am biased. However, I have used TS since version 1 and I am certainly not disappointed with TS7 but it suits my style of work and workflow because they have both evolved around versions of trueSpace. Catch 22 really.....:confused: |
Post by Garion // Mar 17, 2006, 8:43am
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Garion
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Hi Splinters
I hear what yoo are saying, but a big gripe for me which I have stated elsewhere is the premium upgrade price for what is essentially a pretty face on top of TS6.6 which I have already paid for. As a beta tester yoo do not have this expense and thus (in my case) the utter dissapointment of what I actually got for my money on release. This of course is a fluid situation as with the free updates on their way the situation may change in favour of TS7.
Another reason why I am using TS.6.6 is that very few of my paks (the ones I use) function in TS7, this is because of the installer not recognising TS7. This alone means that I cannot use TS7 yet, but when the installers are fixed, that of coursemay change.
I am not a nasty or vindictive person and I abhore pointless critisim intent on nothing but inflaming those that rise to the bait. But I am also not a YES man, as a Caligari customer, from version 1 I feel I am entilled to my opinion and to express it in a civilised way on these forums and NOt incur the wrath of Caligari. If however I was to be rude and abusive then of course I should be banned, booted, or whatever.
I am actially using Truespace right now as type this :)
Anyhoo I dont mean to hijack the thread on issues that have been covered elsewhere.
Truespace 6.6 fits into my Pielinf but Truespace 7 does not at time of typing.
Cheers
Garion |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 17, 2006, 8:59am
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Hexagon 2 looks equally tempting to me, especially at that price but that does not mean I would stop using TS. Two reasons for this;
1. I have years worth of stuff made in TS that I do not want to redo/transfer etc.
2. Hexagon (as far as I am aware) has no render engine while TS has 3 (I have Vray also). You would still need to get a renderer.
That's excluding any loyalty to Caligari or any contracts to work for them..;)
Bottom line, if it helped to get the models I wanted, I would use it but I would not eschew TS for it. If money is limited then I could see why £139 would be tempting for Hex 1 and free upgrade to 2.....:confused:
Don't want to get banned, since replying will set me teetering along a fine line, but in response to :
1. Fair enough. But since I own Carrara Pro that isn't an issue for me.
2. Hex does not have a render engine per se. It has a render preview in the main screen that uses ambient occlusion. And since I do own Carrara, that isn't an issue for me.
I do understand what you are saying tho. This thread is about me venting. Sorting my thoughts and such. |
Post by splinters // Mar 17, 2006, 9:02am
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Thanks Garion, I enjoy your honest and candid views. I am sure that there are ways of getting your paks into TS7. For conversion pak it was just a case of copying over the files from TS6.6. Caligari are working on it too.
I myself am not a YES man. I do occasional work for Caligari but treat that as a job not as an obligation. Obviously I avoid advertising other apps and sometimes bite my lip if a beta version has a feature that users are lamenting the absence of but my opinions are honest and not 'paid for'.
And regarding the UI, who wouldn't want to see their favourite program framed and embellished by their own design work.....? |
Post by splinters // Mar 17, 2006, 9:11am
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Naes3D, I do not see the harm in looking to what Hexagon 2 could do for your workflow alongside TS7. I think the quarantine was warranted by the 'give me a reason to use TS7 when I could use...insert free advert for another app here...' nature of the thread.
I have just been looking at Hexagon 2 and I have a demo of version 1.0 I will play with but at the price they are selling it for I may well buy it. What's the harm in that? I would still use TS7 productively even if just for composing a scene and rendering. I would probably use my school budget if I thought it would be easier for students than TS...but I doubt it now they have all learnt TS.
For most of my projects I use Bryce for backgrounds, Amorphium for organic (clay) modelling and Photoshop for post process.
At school I use Design View (CAD), Alias Upfront (remember that?) Sketchup, Poser, TS 4 and 6 and photoshop. No one program works for me...but TS gets the most use of the lot...;) |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 17, 2006, 10:10am
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Naes3D, I do not see the harm in looking to what Hexagon 2 could do for your workflow alongside TS7. I think the quarantine was warranted by the 'give me a reason to use TS7 when I could use...insert free advert for another app here...' nature of the thread.
Yeah, I get that. Sometimes I type faster than I think. Which scares me when I think about my WPM...
Anyway, I really want to see what tS7 can do for me, but without a demo I am lost. It's starting to look like the sharedSpace wont even be a help to me either.
My latest scheme has me thinking my only chance is to win a copy of tS7. But given my rep I may have to crap out the Sistine Chapel to pull that off... |
Post by Garion // Mar 17, 2006, 10:52am
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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ye Gods Amorphium, I forgot all about that, I got a copy free from a magazine CD a few years ago. Does it work with XP?
Cheers
Garion |
Post by splinters // Mar 17, 2006, 11:40am
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splinters
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Works fine but more for fun than work nowadays...:D |
Post by Garion // Mar 17, 2006, 12:16pm
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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Sooper, going to dig it out and have a play :)
I seem to remeber there being a fault in the installer of the 1st version given away, I spent hours on the 3D World Forums explaining the fix for.. unfortunatley encroaching senility has robbed me of the details.. :)
Now for a rummage... to find the one that worked :)
Cheers
Garion |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 17, 2006, 1:21pm
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A quick look thru my program cd holder reveals I still have a copy of Amorphium. Version 1. I used to use this along with my copy of Simply 3D.
Heh, bet no one remembers that one.
It was when I was messing around with these 2 programs trying to figure out how I was ever gonna use them to create an object of my own, that I stumbled upon a program called trueSpace.
I had heard of the other big boy apps like Max and SoftImage but trueSpace was the first 'real' 3D program I ever actually used. O was like 'wow. I can actually make stuff...'
It was my friends copy tho so I only had access to it when I was at his house. He had a copy of the trueSpace2 Bible. Just as I was getting thru the space barge tute, I had to move so we weren't within 'I'm at your house everyday range'.
Then I bought a video card from a co worker who didn't want it anymore. It was a Hercules card with a whopping (at the time) 8mb of ram. Hey, it was a professional workstation card. I couldn't pass it up. What he didn't tell me (I'm not sure he knew) was that it had included in the box, 2 programs that I would find interesting Micrografx Picture Publisher (I used PP all the way up til it's demise) and Caligari trueSpace 3 SE. Then when I finally had my own copy of tS...I didn't know what to do with it. I remember watching the tricycle demo itself over and over agin until I closed the program still uninspired. So I continued using the other baby 3D apps I had while I thought about what I wanted to accomplish with tS.
I got around to the point where I was doing renders in Simply 3D with imported Poser figures. I thought I was pretty good, but I kept thinking I want more control over the model I was rendering. Plus there were just certain things S3D would not render. Oddly enough, it never crashed but it would certainly slow down to a pace only a hobbled turtle could match on some renders. Then I remembered my best friend has been working with tS since version 1 and now its on 5. I have the best resource I could have right at my fingertips!
Boy was I surprised to find out he gave up on it. He said he was tired of fighting with the bugginess and the constant need of technical support which never fixed the problem completely. He told me he was moving to Max and I should too. He was pretty insistent. However, I still remembered how good some of the suff he did looked so I ignored his warnings and bought a copy of tS5 anyway. Then a series of unfortunate events saw that my computer and all my stuff sat in storage because where I moved I just had no room and even less time.
When that finally changed, I tried to dive back into tS but I found it not as useful as I remember it. It was buggy and so much had changed since the last versions I had used. Plus I spent a lot of time adapting myself to other ways of doing things.
tS wasn't what I had expected it to be 4 versions later but I kept having faith in promises that it would be better.
Now we are back at today and I am being forced to reexamine my faith. What will I do going forward? |
Post by Garion // Mar 17, 2006, 1:57pm
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Garion
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I remeber Simply 3D, I have a copy of that too from.. I believe.. A PC Advisor Mag and I was looking at the case t'other day.
Many more moons ago I had a copy of Easy3D Creator and before that ..I think it wa called 3D Expression.... it was DOS based and the windows port was bugged to hell. There are others and as I rember them I will edit this post for a trip down memory lane :)
Easy 3D cost £30 in Pissy World but Truesapce 2 totally overshadowed it :)
As for where we would be now with Truespace, I agree that I never invisioned how far it would slip behind the other applications, but like yerself I remained Loyal. If I was to be honest with myself version 3.2 was the one I had least trouble with, but I daresay there will be others who have their own favourite version.
To me it all seemed to change after Version 3.2.
Ispace is another app that I still use, I was a beta tester for it and I have produced some quite good stuff with it, all of which is long lost on the Information Super Highway. It is/was IMHO a very underrated application that had its genesis long befroe the Worldwide Web could accomodate it, lets face it, most of us in the UK were still on dial up :D
Ah well Happy days
Cheers
Garion |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 17, 2006, 2:53pm
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I think iSpace was the last app I my friend bought. That was why I was so surprised when he told me he walke. I was thnking 'but you just bought something from them'.
What is it, I wonder, that kept tS from being a big boy app. I remember how impressed I was with the chapter entitled You can model absolutely anything in trueSpace in the trueSpace Bible.
If I had a different set of interests, I might never notice tS' shortcomings. But I want creatures and humanoids in still images. I wanna do some sci fi type stuff. Character related features are a must for me.
Part of my frustration is that I have purposely hindered my own progress with other apps because I want to see what tS is doing.
Sometimes I am too stubborn fer my own good. |
Post by Alien // Mar 17, 2006, 4:05pm
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In response to freaky42 question in another thread:
If you don't already have one you might want a bitmap editor. Most people will tell you Photoshop and you won't lose anything for having it, but I use PhotoPaint and don't feel I have lost anything with it.
Paint Shop Pro 9 gets my vote for 2D app. |
Post by Garion // Mar 17, 2006, 4:34pm
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Garion
Total Posts: 116
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After yoo have spent so much time and money learning an application, it can seem very daunting to even concider change.
It can seem to some like they have wasted their time learning an application that in the final analysis and for whatever reason has let them down.
This is actually not the case.
Before I started with Truespace I dabbled here and there with Dos and some early Windows based applications, but nothing I did back then was a patch on what I could produce a few years later with Truespace 2 and later 3.2.
In my years of using Truespace I have learned so much more than I ever thought possible in the early years. Now I know the jargon and have plenty of experience in creating art, ads, squiggles and for want of a better word..erm abstracts. :D I learned this using Truespace, so my time and money was not wasted.
But... and its a big but.
The time came when I realised that I was spending so much time using work arounds for bugs that should have been fixed in versions of Truspace several generations previously, bugs that have caused me to restart projects time and time again that it occurred to me for the first time that I was indeed wasting my time and money.
These bugs were never going to be fixed and still aren't and for the first time with TS7 cost of ownership exceeded its value to me compared with what other applications are offering at a reduced price, fuller featureset and stability.
It seemed to me that Caligari repaid my loyalty with slap in the face and a grab at mywallet. I chose to protest, but in the end I kept my copy of TS 7 in the hope that the updates might even things out.
I don't want to start sounding like a parrot, but as I used to tell my students, 'If an application does not do the job you need it to do, in a way and at a price you can afford. Get another application or group of applications that can.' End of Story
If the hammer breaks, get a new hammer, if that hammer breaks again buy a hammer from a differnt manufacturer.
I am still using Truespace 6.6, I have tried to express my feelings in a civilised and constructive way, but all the feedback I have recieved from caligari is Roman telling us about his dream and an essay brom Bibbiana telling how Truespace was first at a lot of things. Unfortunatley being first is not what matters, that application has to perform properly, regularly and the feedback from its userbase has to be listened to and acted apon or the userbase moves on.
This is the Lesson Caligari have consistently failed to learn and it is for this lack of understanding that so many people are sending back, or, I should say are reportedly sending back thier copies of Truspace 7.
End of lecture, its up to Caligari now.
Goodnight
Garion |
Post by stan // Mar 17, 2006, 4:37pm
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stan
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Naes3d..it's when you don't give a customer what they want, they will go elsewhere..or word of mouth..if people hear good things they want in..
if you can keep giving people what they want..you end up one of the big boys.. |
Post by daybe // Mar 17, 2006, 4:42pm
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daybe
Total Posts: 562
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My favorite app besides photoshop is Xara Xtreme, vector based drawing program, based out the UK, really cheap but worth every penny, about $79 usd. Been using it for quite a few years now. http://www.xara.com |
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